The Ref Stop

Goalkeeper Releasing the Ball

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The Ref Stop
Runner Ref said:
But you are wrong in law. As people have explained above.
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As a group we are considering the changes in law wording, which I suspect has inadvertently opened this as a balanced discussion. Unless IFAB tell us otherwise, my opinion is that the goalkeeper is releasing the ball in the OP description.
That said, the point about whether this is a hill to die on is very valid, as is the view of some that proactive refereeing would involve a shout to the goalkeeper.
 
Could the goalkeeper intentionally palming it down to wait before claiming it when challenged be considered a deliberate trick to circumvent the laws of the game? 🧐

I wouldn't recommend people to start giving it and caution the goalkeeper... 😆
 
If the ball isn't between the hand and a surface it has to be held before the goalkeeper is considered to be in (edit) control.

If people think deliberately touching the ball counts as holding the ball then that's there right.

I didn't even think think was a debate anymore after the deliberate parry was removed from the law.

@Peter Grove Perhaps could provide some historial context on the deliberate parry
 
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ChasObserverRefDeveloper said:
The understanding on this issue has always been that if the ball rebounds from the goalkeeper when they make a save or need to parry a shot, they may handle again, but the OP describes the goalkeeper handling the ball with no pressure, electing to put it into play, and then handling again, which IMHO remains an indirect free kick offence.
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Just to clarify, my scenarios in my original post describe the goalkeeper handling the ball with no pressure but fumbling the ball and dropping it (not deliberately "electing" to put the ball into ball.) and then handling it again.
 
NOVARef said:
Just to clarify, my scenarios in my original post describe the goalkeeper handling the ball with no pressure but fumbling the ball and dropping it (not deliberately "electing" to put the ball into ball.) and then handling it again.
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I think by OP he was referring to my original post, not the topics original post.
 
bester said:
If the ball isn't between the hand and a surface it has to be held before the goalkeeper is considered to be in possession.

If people think deliberately touching the ball counts as holding the ball then that's there right.

I didn't even think think was a debate anymore after the deliberate parry was removed from the law.

@Peter Grove Perhaps could provide some historial context on the deliberate parry
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@Peter Grove will be able to guide as to whether "deliberate parry" was in the Laws, and if so when it was removed.
In 1995, for example, the guidance was:
"with Law XII (o) .
(15) The International F.A . Board is of the
opinion that a goalkeeper, in the circumstances described in Law XI 15 (a), will be considered to be in control of the ball by touching it
with any part of his hands or arms. Possession
of the ball would include the goalkeeper intentionally parrying the ball, but would not include
the circumstances where, in the opinion of
the referee, the ball rebounds accidentally from the goalkeeper, for example after he has
made a save"

But Law 12 doesn't mention "in possession" now, it mentions "release".
I suspect this is a part of Law which has changed its meaning a little as various re-writes have occurred, and it's a part of Law which very few referees will ever have penalised, and going forward few if any will.
 
NOVARef said:
Just to clarify, my scenarios in my original post describe the goalkeeper handling the ball with no pressure but fumbling the ball and dropping it (not deliberately "electing" to put the ball into ball.) and then handling it again.
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I would think if the GK dropped the ball and registered it while it was bouncing around no one would bat an eyelid. But do we think it matters how long GK allows the ball to stay on the ball before picking it up again? If, say, he leaves it 5 or 6 seconds do we start reconsidering if GK actions were deliberate?

The time would not count towards the 8 seconds, so I assume we would not wish to be encouraging deliberately sloppy handling
 
Redster said:
I would think if the GK dropped the ball and registered it while it was bouncing around no one would bat an eyelid. But do we think it matters how long GK allows the ball to stay on the ball before picking it up again? If, say, he leaves it 5 or 6 seconds do we start reconsidering if GK actions were deliberate?

The time would not count towards the 8 seconds, so I assume we would not wish to be encouraging deliberately sloppy handling
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We can play the “what if” game all day in theory. In practice, use common sense—if it quacks like a duck, it’s a duck. And if you have any doubt whether it should be called, don’t call it. Make sure you’re punishing something that deserves to be punished. It’s why we get the big bucks!
 
ChasObserverRefDeveloper said:
But control is not mentioned in this section either . . . (?)
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For a goalkeeper to be considered to have released the ball from his hands he first needs to have met the conditions for having control of the ball with his hands.

My interpretation of @RefereeX scenario is the ball was never held so the ball can't have been released from the goalkeeper's hands.

"A goalkeeper is considered to be in control of the ball with their hand(s)/
arm(s) when:
• the ball is between their hands/arms or between their hand(s)/arm(s) and
any surface (e.g. ground, own body)
• holding the ball in their outstretched open hand(s)
• bouncing it on the ground or throwing it in the air"
 
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