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Liverpool Vs Real Madrid

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Clip 5 mins in- how can tha be deemed handball, yet last nights wasn’t? As previously said, no issues with no penalty last night, but 2 fairly similar incidents with different outcomes.

 
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Runner Ref said:
Clip 5 mins in- how can tha be deemed handball, yet last nights wasn’t? As previously said, no issues with no penalty last night, but 2 fairly similar incidents with different outcomes.

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Haven't seen the one from last night, but this is just a ludicrously incorrect decision by any interpretation IMO and therefore pointless comparing.
 
RefereeX said:
Haven't seen the one from last night, but this is just a ludicrously incorrect decision by any interpretation IMO and therefore pointless comparing.
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Agree, you can't look at a ludicrously bad decision and say that is then a comparison for any subsequent handball decisions. Referees make mistakes, and VARs are just referees doing a different role and will therefore make mistakes, it is pretty rare for both to make a mistake one after the other but it will happen from time to time.
 
RustyRef said:
Agree, you can't look at a ludicrously bad decision and say that is then a comparison for any subsequent handball decisions. Referees make mistakes, and VARs are just referees doing a different role and will therefore make mistakes, it is pretty rare for both to make a mistake one after the other but it will happen from time to time.
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Of course you can. The entire point of VAR is to stop such poor decisions from happening. A group of officials have looked at the incident last night and said no pen, whereas a group looked at the other one and said pen.

The incidents are pretty similar. This is why fans get frustrated when it comes to consistencies. But due to poor guidance/implementation, it’s a complete guessing game as to what will be given
 
Runner Ref said:
Of course you can. The entire point of VAR is to stop such poor decisions from happening. A group of officials have looked at the incident last night and said no pen, whereas a group looked at the other one and said pen.

The incidents are pretty similar. This is why fans get frustrated when it comes to consistencies. But due to poor guidance/implementation, it’s a complete guessing game as to what will be given
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Handball is the most subjective part of football, there are always going to be vastly different interpretations.

I would like to think that the officials in the clip you posted, both referee and VAR, were stood down for a while and given appropriate development advice. Taking that action might move to better consistency, but I personally doubt it as I'm not even sure IFAB know what deliberate handling is any more.
 
RustyRef said:
Handball is the most subjective part of football, there are always going to be vastly different interpretations.

I would like to think that the officials in the clip you posted, both referee and VAR, were stood down for a while and given appropriate development advice. Taking that action might move to better consistency, but I personally doubt it as I'm not even sure IFAB know what deliberate handling is any more.
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The reality is that there are not bright lines unless we want to go with all contact with the hand/arm is an offense. And there are a ton of reasons why that is a bad idea. But as long as there is not a bright line, there are going to be different views, and thus different calls (with or without VAR) when plays are in the edge-case zone. We can pretend there is always a right answer, but it just isn’t so.
 
Completely agree that handball will always be one of, if not the most subjective call in football. My issue/annoyance/frustration/worry is around how far apart various parties are in its application.

When we look at UEFA games, and even Spanish league, they’re so far away from what would be expected in England.
 
bester said:
IFAB need to stop National and Continental FAs from having their own interpretations.
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Agree in principle but impossible to do for subjective decisions. A subjective decision can never be made prescriptive or black and white. It's dictating not to have a high bar or low bar for physical fouls. As long as there are words like intent, how do you make football bodies or referees for that matter apply it in a prescriptive way?

IFAB tried to make handball very specific with a range of conditions like above/bellow shoulder etc, and that didn't go too well.
 
one said:
Agree in principle but impossible to do for subjective decisions. A subjective decision can never be made prescriptive or black and white. It's dictating not to have a high bar or low bar for physical fouls. As long as there are words like intent, how do you make football bodies or referees for that matter apply it in a prescriptive way?

IFAB tried to make handball very specific with a range of conditions like above/bellow shoulder etc, and that didn't go too well.
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Complete consistency is impossible. However, IMO, the current handball approach varies between different footballing bodies in an unacceptably large manner and IFAB need to be given licence to correct this. In simple terms, I believe that PGMO are now (belatedly) doing their best to implement the current handball law as written / intended. UEFA, frankly are not.
 
Russell Jones said:
Complete consistency is impossible. However, IMO, the current handball approach varies between different footballing bodies in an unacceptably large manner and IFAB need to be given licence to correct this. In simple terms, I believe that PGMO are now (belatedly) doing their best to implement the current handball law as written / intended. UEFA, frankly are not.
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Could we suggest these unintentional handballs need to be impactful?

The result is a free shot from 12 yards when the ‘offence’ was nowhere near that.
 
one said:
Agree in principle but impossible to do for subjective decisions. A subjective decision can never be made prescriptive or black and white. It's dictating not to have a high bar or low bar for physical fouls. As long as there are words like intent, how do you make football bodies or referees for that matter apply it in a prescriptive way?

IFAB tried to make handball very specific with a range of conditions like above/bellow shoulder etc, and that didn't go too well.
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Completely agree. There really never has been full consistency. The difference in HB from England/US on one hand and South America on the other is a large part of what spurred the recent efforts round HB.
 
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