So I was on uni ground and I was able to watch a cricket game before my kickoff. It was just a lower division cricket game not many divisions and team anyways. But I see 2 official with proper prem league quality coms kit and stuff. At that moment I was so jealous we can’t even use sprays which I still found it so pointless. So just want to start a debate why do we have restrictions when other sports don’t- is it beneficial-
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Certainly not in England! Club appointed umpires and never seen comms!
I've seen it at club level hockey though.
I think it's partly due to trying to keep a level playing field (all officials with the same kit). Some games might be officiated differently (and incorrectly without training). There's also costs involved which could give those who can afford it an advantage.
Added to the fact there's a general avoidance of change if at all possible
ChasObserverRefDeveloper
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The University games are umpired by people on the ECB pathway, so some may have comms kits.
The cost of vanishing spray is not something that most grassroots referees would welcome, given the other pressures on finances, and adds minimal value - it's an unnecessary gimmick at local level, in my opinion.
Making it mandatory doesn’t make sense you are right but the ones with the money should be allowed to do it. If I have a money I want to use it
ChasObserverRefDeveloper
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Think carefully - would it make you a better referee?
Clue: the answer is "no"
Clue: the answer is "no"
socal lurker
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And letting it be used would put pressure on others to use it. That is why it is not permitted. (US has a similar rule on spray—it can only be used if specifically authorized by the competition AND is provided free to the refs.)
Using Comms for football is not just stick headset on and go. Comms needs to be structured and add value to the overall game management.
Getting on in the refereeing world should be not be a battle between the haves and the have nots.
This creates an unfair playing field not only for referees but for clubs as well as identical incidents in a games with and without comms may result in a different outcome.
Getting on in the refereeing world should be not be a battle between the haves and the have nots.
Completely agree, it creates an unfair playing field and I always use this example. A team should be given a clear penalty which the referee misses, it is far side to the active AR so he can't credibly come in to assist. The next week the same team are involved in exactly the same challenge which the referee again misses only this time they are the defending team. This time the officials are wearing comms so the AR can advise the referee that he's missed a clear foul without anyone doubting his credibility.
And then of course you have the referees themselves, why should one referee have a better chance of getting promoted because he can afford a comms kit? Especially at L4 and above where they are competing for places in a merit table. Referee A gets pinged for an incorrect KMD because he misses a penalty on the far side to the AR, referee B misses exactly the same challenge in a different game but advice from the AR over comms allows his to avoid the incorrect KMD. It just wouldn't be fair.
Wouldn't be surprised if comms get passed down to L3s to use on Step 3/4 games at some point in the future, but I doubt it'll be any time soon. At least The FA would be able to provide the training to L4s when they're promoted.
As for officials at lower levels being able to buy their own - absolutely not. At Steps 5 and 6 you could have a first year L4 who's never even had neutral assistants before but mummy and daddy have bought them a comms kit as a present, with two 16 year old L7s running their first ever lines and barely know which end of the flag to hold, let alone what to say over the comms and when to say it.
As for officials at lower levels being able to buy their own - absolutely not. At Steps 5 and 6 you could have a first year L4 who's never even had neutral assistants before but mummy and daddy have bought them a comms kit as a present, with two 16 year old L7s running their first ever lines and barely know which end of the flag to hold, let alone what to say over the comms and when to say it.
As someone who could afford to buy comms if I wanted - I agree they shouldn't be allowed at lower levels! I'm lucky enough to nearly always have NARs now, and frankly I don't want comms. It gives me an unfair advantage, and to be perfectly honest if I miss a KMD I need to learn from it.
Over time you would become reliant on comms and then you may get very lazy, and ultimately miss more KMDs. Also, it might just be me, but I have enough to think about as it is, never mind with an extra 2 voices in my ear. Most things that comms can be used for can also be solved with things we already have (voices and flags).
And as for vanishing spray - I was on the line for a L5 going for L4 in a Step 7 game last season. He used spray, and to be honest it looked ridiculous considering there were about 40 people there even if you include the players and officials!
And the equipment was only used in the cricket game because uni cricket is now officiated by Level 2 or 3 umpires I believe, so they couldn't be much closer to TV games in The Hundred if they aren't already on them. Also as a Level 5 umpire going for 4 - I can assure you that equipment is not being seen anywhere near my games outside of the ECB Premier Leagues etc. Every other sport is the same as football in that it won't be used at low level games.
Over time you would become reliant on comms and then you may get very lazy, and ultimately miss more KMDs. Also, it might just be me, but I have enough to think about as it is, never mind with an extra 2 voices in my ear. Most things that comms can be used for can also be solved with things we already have (voices and flags).
And as for vanishing spray - I was on the line for a L5 going for L4 in a Step 7 game last season. He used spray, and to be honest it looked ridiculous considering there were about 40 people there even if you include the players and officials!
And the equipment was only used in the cricket game because uni cricket is now officiated by Level 2 or 3 umpires I believe, so they couldn't be much closer to TV games in The Hundred if they aren't already on them. Also as a Level 5 umpire going for 4 - I can assure you that equipment is not being seen anywhere near my games outside of the ECB Premier Leagues etc. Every other sport is the same as football in that it won't be used at low level games.
ChasObserverRefDeveloper
Regular Contributor
As with cricket above, BUCS hockey umpires at National Level are centrally appointed from the national umpires' list, so senior.
“Hope the sarnies are better than last time!” Says the assistant over comms!
bester
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socal lurker
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while I agree they are unnecessary at lower levels and are not good for proper skill development, I think the “unfair playing field” argument is a complete red herring. Teams are equally likely to benefit from the advantages comms provide—though the odds of them making a difference is pretty small. There is far, far more variance in impact from who the individual refs and ARs are than from any difference something like coms make.
Probably is pretty small, but still isn't a level playing field. If I was a coach I'd be pretty miffed if I didn't get a penalty one week because there were no comms and then had one against me the week after because there were comms. I'd be asking the question why one set of match officials had comms when the other didn't.
It also makes the officials stand out like a sore thumb at lower levels. I saw a team of three waiting outside the changing rooms for the teams to emerge, one of the captains came out took one look at them and quipped "I'd like a big mac, fries and a milkshake please". They clearly didn't know what they were doing with them, they weren't official sets and rather something they'd bought of eBay, and I don't think it helped their game in the slightest.