Discounted Referee Courses

RefereeX said:

It does feel like a few members on here (members that I generally enjoy reading posts of on many topics, and some of whom can be very knowledgeable) have an Anti-FA agenda, whereby it wouldn't matter what the FA do, it would get bemoaned.

I don't think anyone at the FA is making decisions because they have any sort of negative intentions. I firmly believe every decision they make is what they believe is in the best interests of the game / it's participants.

Do I think they could improve at certain things? certainly... but the way I see it... it's a little like refereeing... we don't turn up to ruin 22 peoples match, but the way they interpret our decision making often means they go home thinking we did. You can please some of the people, all of the time and all of the people some of the time, but you can't please all of the people all of the time.

Click to expand...

Aside from this 'two-tier' approach to Ref Courses, I don't mind the FA (and CFA's). They have some excellent people working for them with great intentions, but they're hamstrung by the organisations above them
My disdain in football is on a sliding scale from grass roots upward, CFA/FA (very low) thru NLS/EFL thru Premier League thru Confederations (UEFA) thru to FIFA (extremely high). The Premier League was great to start with, but the clubs rapidly became too big to govern. The rules (Owner/Directors & PSR) came in after the horse had bolted and have never been effective or fit for purpose. IFAB are half FIFA and an embarrassing stain on the game.
Referees are bottom of the pile. We're screwed with an utterly impossible job such that nobody gets close to what the game expects from us because it can't be done

To emphasize, I think the CFAs and FA do their best in impossible circumstances, but I disapprove of the free courses discussed above, mostly on the basis that excessive EDI (a form of corporate wokeness) risks animosity which may have a negative impact outweighing the benefit of the apparent intent

bester said:

There's no spare £250 for many on low incomes.

Coaching courses will usually be paid for by clubs.

Both coaching courses and referee courses are massively overpriced compared to the majority of Europe and the after support is generally poor as well.

Click to expand...

The course is around £150 not £250, I know there is kit but new referees can make do with just a black shirt and shorts and a cheap whistle. I made my own cards cut from lever arch file dividers.

I don't think many grass roots coaches get their course fees paid for by the club, I certainly didn't and pretty sure none of the coaches I know did. Clubs are only likely to pay where they mandate that their coaches must be qualified.

RustyRef said:

The course is around £150 not £250, I know there is kit but new referees can make do with just a black shirt and shorts and a cheap whistle. I made my own cards cut from lever arch file dividers.

I don't think many grass roots coaches get their course fees paid for by the club, I certainly didn't and pretty sure none of the coaches I know did. Clubs are only likely to pay where they mandate that their coaches must be qualified.

Click to expand...

We have recently had a number of 14-16-year-old players attending courses, funded by the youth football/mini soccer clubs where they play.
They continue to play but also referee younger age groups for the club.
Given that we have clubs with more than 50 teams, it's a pragmatic solution.

Big Cat said:

To emphasize, I think the CFAs and FA do their best in impossible circumstances, but I disapprove of the free courses discussed above, mostly on the basis that excessive EDI (a form of corporate wokeness) risks animosity which may have a negative impact outweighing the benefit of the apparent intent

Click to expand...

Okay but do you have a better solution? Because training people to not have racial bias and asking people nicely hasn't moved the needle at all...

OnlyUseMeWhistle said:

Okay but do you have a better solution? Because training people to not have racial bias and asking people nicely hasn't moved the needle at all...

Click to expand...

My solution would be to offer reduced / free training to both BAME and financially challenged people.

If people then don't come forward to become referees what else can you then do?

It would be interesting to know, for sure, the number of referees that are ACTUALLY being recruited by these methods. That way we would know if this method makes any difference.

Kent Ref said:

My solution would be to offer reduced / free training to both BAME and financially challenged people.

If people then don't come forward to become referees what else can you then do?

It would be interesting to know, for sure, the number of referees that are ACTUALLY being recruited by these methods. That way we would know if this method makes any difference.

Click to expand...

Many CFAs do this and given what @RustyRef says about CFA finances I assume they wouldn't do it if it didn't yield results!

OnlyUseMeWhistle said:

Okay but do you have a better solution? Because training people to not have racial bias and asking people nicely hasn't moved the needle at all...

Click to expand...

We all have racial bias and a million other forms of bias. Millenia of evolution has seen to that. It's just that some of us are somewhat aware of our psyche whilst others are oblivious. I don't see an absurdly unrealistic need to supress this reality, because attempts to do so are proving fruitless. I don't think a referee forum is the place to get seriously into all this and I'm no sociology (or any other ology) expert, but I perceive myself as more self-aware than the average cat and the stuff I say is just my common sense. I'd rather accept the fact that we don't all like each other (based on demographics) and celebrate the differences amongst the diverse population rather than bury my human traits. Awareness and acknowledgement is a step in the right direction, not a fallacy that we can all integrate harmoniously within a generation or two, or three or four or..... more

Ultimately, I don't think I'd discriminate based on any minority group, even if I was aware of my dislike of any particular race, culture, religion or sexuality. We need more cats like me IMHO!

Big Cat said:

We all have racial bias and a million other forms of bias. Millenia of evolution has seen to that. It's just that some of us are somewhat aware of our psyche whilst others are oblivious. I don't see an absurdly unrealistic need to supress this reality, because attempts to do so are proving fruitless. I don't think a referee forum is the place to get seriously into all this and I'm no sociology (or any other ology) expert, but I perceive myself as more self-aware than the average cat and the stuff I say is just my common sense. I'd rather accept the fact that we don't all like each other (based on demographics) and celebrate the differences amongst the diverse population rather than bury my human traits. Awareness and acknowledgement is a step in the right direction, not a fallacy that we can all integrate harmoniously within a generation or two, or three or four or..... more

Ultimately, I don't think I'd discriminate based on any minority group, even if I was aware of my dislike of any particular race, culture, religion or sexuality. We need more cats like me IMHO!

Click to expand...

Except that natural desire to seek out those who look and sound like us has resulted in the unequal society - very easy as a white man to say "can't we all just get along"!

OnlyUseMeWhistle said:

Many CFAs do this and given what @RustyRef says about CFA finances I assume they wouldn't do it if it didn't yield results!

Click to expand...

These opportunities may well exist, or have done.

I've never seen any in the last 10 years.

OnlyUseMeWhistle said:

very easy as a white man to say "can't we all just get along"!

Click to expand...

This white man didn't say that
Anyway, not to be misunderstood. I don't wish to engage any further, just because every word I type is regrettable as it gets me deeper into a subject I don't wish to get into any further

Your best bet is to find a local club that wants referees. They subsidise or pay for the course fees in total.

Kent Ref said:

These opportunities may well exist, or have done.

I've never seen any in the last 10 years.

Click to expand...

There have definitely been such courses, I'm sure one was discussed on here where it was held in a community centre in a deprived area of London (Elephant & Castle from memory).

There's an obvious problem though. CFAs know who is of ethnic minority (BAME is now outdated and can't be used), either because they state it when registering or when applying for the refereeing course. But if someone can't afford to apply for the course how on earth would the CFA know that, likewise how would they know that an already qualified referee can't afford the fee to go for promotion? I'd be supportive of offering the course on a Klarna type approach, where attendees pay for it in three equal installments, that way they can pay it back as they get match fees in. But then you obviously have the risk that they decide refereeing isn't for them, or can't pass the course, in which case they have a debt with no income.

There's no easy answer. My mate has just been made redundant from his job in IT, he knows at his age (mid 50s) he has little to no chance of getting another job without having Microsoft qualifications, so he is self funding these to the tune of several thousand pounds. He probably can't afford that, but if he wants to have a chance of earning money he needs to pay it, not sure refereeing is really any different.