The Ref Stop

Discounted Referee Courses

Donate to RefChat

Help keep RefChat running, any donation would be appreciated

Status
Not open for further replies.
bester said:
Most of the arguments in this thread have used participation stats as evidence of a barrier.

Is the aim of these measures equality or opportunity, or simply a diversity %?

The barriers in this country are largely based on Class not Race
Click to expand...
I mean you could use both stats and the refereeing figures are pretty bad…

Also yes class is a big factor and race is tied up in that!
 
The Ref Stop
Kent Ref said:
sorry but i stand by my view of the fa based on the continual initiatives aimed at a very small percentage of the population.a

on a broader point bester makes an excellent point. i noted you have made no comment.

do you think positive action should be taken in this regard? my local cricket team is about 50%(asian bame) but my area is about 8% bame. shall we let positive action be taken? how silly.
Click to expand...
That is a completely flawed argument, as I know of several football clubs that are 100 non-white British. Where representation needs to improve doesn't just look at individual regions and cities, it looks at the overall picture in the country, and if anyone thinks that ethnic minorities are proportionally represented in football across England as a whole they are away with the birds as the very clear evidence says otherwise.
 
RustyRef said:
That is a completely flawed argument, as I know of several football clubs that are 100 non-white British. Where representation needs to improve doesn't just look at individual regions and cities, it looks at the overall picture in the country, and if anyone thinks that ethnic minorities are proportionally represented in football across England as a whole they are away with the birds as the very clear evidence says otherwise.
Click to expand...

Are you sure? Rarely see a football team without at least one black player.

Certainly far more than Asian players who are over represented according to these stats.

www.bbc.co.uk

Asian participation in grassroots football in England increasing, says Football Association

Asian participation in grassroots football in England has increased since last year, according to figures published by the Football Association.
www.bbc.co.uk www.bbc.co.uk

Ethnic minorities are vastly overrated represented in the professional game.
 
bester said:
Are you sure? Rarely see a football team without at least one black player.

Certainly far more than Asian players who are over represented according to these stats.

www.bbc.co.uk

Asian participation in grassroots football in England increasing, says Football Association

Asian participation in grassroots football in England has increased since last year, according to figures published by the Football Association.
www.bbc.co.uk www.bbc.co.uk

Ethnic minorities are vastly overrated represented in the professional game.
Click to expand...
Easy to join a club or set up your own. Hard to force yourself into the old boys club. Also come to the shires and you’ll struggle to find a black player in some leagues.
 
RustyRef said:
That is a completely flawed argument, as I know of several football clubs that are 100 non-white British. Where representation needs to improve doesn't just look at individual regions and cities, it looks at the overall picture in the country, and if anyone thinks that ethnic minorities are proportionally represented in football across England as a whole they are away with the birds as the very clear evidence says otherwise.
Click to expand...
You've conveniently ignored the point as it suits your agrument:

On average roughly 30% of participants in cricket are Asian. In some areas significantly more.

How would it be viewed if there was positive action only available to whites to encourage more participants from white backgrounds so we have equal representation?

Many fast food restaurants are 90% non-white staff. Have you ever seen a white only advertisement or any calls for equal representation?

What shall we do to get more white people playing cricket? On last census the UK is 18.2% BAME. Shall we take "positive action" here then?

What about my idea that i think a lot more asians are attracted to cricket (for whatever reason) but let's not interfere with people's natural choices?

Assuming you believe in this positive action lets give uk cricket the treatment - as it is definitely needed. What's good for one is good for the others?

At least @JamesL tries to explain his postion whereas you are your normal arrogant self.

You'll be surprised to know not everybody agrees with you as you seem to think you know it all. Very rude and condescending.

And when you're proved wrong (like your statement on impactfullness and 8 seconds for example) you can never just say "yes, i got it wrong".
 
Kent Ref said:
You've conveniently ignored the point as it suits your agrument:

On average roughly 30% of participants in cricket are Asian. In some areas significantly more.

How would it be viewed if there was positive action only available to whites to encourage more participants from white backgrounds so we have equal representation?

Many fast food restaurants are 90% non-white staff. Have you ever seen a white only advertisement or any calls for equal representation?

What shall we do to get more white people playing cricket? On last census the UK is 18.2% BAME. Shall we take "positive action" here then?

What about my idea that i think a lot more asians are attracted to cricket (for whatever reason) but let's not interfere with people's natural choices?

Assuming you believe in this positive action lets give uk cricket the treatment - as it is definitely needed. What's good for one is good for the others?

At least @JamesL tries to explain his postion whereas you are your normal arrogant self.

You'll be surprised to know not everybody agrees with you as you seem to think you know it all. Very rude and condescending.

And when you're proved wrong (like your statement on impactfullness and 8 seconds for example) you can never just say "yes, i got it wrong".
Click to expand...
How many of englands cricked board are BAME? How many of the England test squad?

Its like saying women aren’t held back in the workplace because lots are middle managers!
 
bester said:
Are you sure? Rarely see a football team without at least one black player.

Certainly far more than Asian players who are over represented according to these stats.

www.bbc.co.uk

Asian participation in grassroots football in England increasing, says Football Association

Asian participation in grassroots football in England has increased since last year, according to figures published by the Football Association.
www.bbc.co.uk www.bbc.co.uk

Ethnic minorities are vastly overrated represented in the professional game.
Click to expand...
I said there are clubs that are 100% non-white British i.e. they are completely made up of ethnic minority players.
 
"and if anyone thinks that ethnic minorities are proportionally represented in football across England as a whole they are away with the birds as the very clear evidence says otherwise."
 
It
Kent Ref said:
You've conveniently ignored the point as it suits your agrument:

On average roughly 30% of participants in cricket are Asian. In some areas significantly more.

How would it be viewed if there was positive action only available to whites to encourage more participants from white backgrounds so we have equal representation?

Many fast food restaurants are 90% non-white staff. Have you ever seen a white only advertisement or any calls for equal representation?

What shall we do to get more white people playing cricket? On last census the UK is 18.2% BAME. Shall we take "positive action" here then?

What about my idea that i think a lot more asians are attracted to cricket (for whatever reason) but let's not interfere with people's natural choices?

Assuming you believe in this positive action lets give uk cricket the treatment - as it is definitely needed. What's good for one is good for the others?

At least @JamesL tries to explain his postion whereas you are your normal arrogant self.

You'll be surprised to know not everybody agrees with you as you seem to think you know it all. Very rude and condescending.

And when you're proved wrong (like your statement on impactfullness and 8 seconds for example) you can never just say "yes, i got it wrong".
Click to expand...
This is a football refereeing forum, I couldn't really care less about cricket, so why should I reply to a post about it?

If you don't like my posts ignore them, or even put me on the blocked lists should you so desire. You seem to waste a lot of time arguing with someone that you find to be arrogant, rude and condescending 🤷‍♂️
 
RustyRef said:
It

This is a football refereeing forum, I couldn't really care less about cricket, so why should I reply to a post about it?

If you don't like my posts ignore them, or even put me on the blocked lists should you so desire. You seem to waste a lot of time arguing with someone that you find to be arrogant, rude and condescending 🤷‍♂️
Click to expand...
Especially if the narrative does not fit, eh?

Also have not heard from @OnlyUseMeWhistle on the subject.of the ECB / players. Mmmm.
 
I can't be bothered to read the entire thread, as we've had this out before
The Mods lean towards wokeness, so any alternate viewpoint will be shutdown. Which keeps the FA happy
@Kent Ref I can't recall the last post you've submitted which hasn't had @RustyRef all over it. You're fighting a losing battle and you're not really welcome. It's a problem with the forum because viewpoints have become less diverse over the many years I've been on here. It's a problem with social Media in general. Conform or get shutdown

I see a world which has gone through (and the UK is still amidst) a very woke period. The UK is more divisive than ever
Trump and Reform will tip the apple cart in the other direction. Swing politics (which has never worked either). Much of Europe is already shifting
Just treat everyone the same and stop swinging between extremes. The UK in particular is in a total mess and woke has not worked

I'll only post once on the subject as I've learned not to invest much emotional energy in such engagements
 
Big Cat said:
I can't be bothered to read the entire thread, as we've had this out before
The Mods lean towards wokeness, so any alternate viewpoint will be shutdown. Which keeps the FA happy
@Kent Ref I can't recall the last post you've submitted which hasn't had @RustyRef all over it. You're fighting a losing battle and you're not really welcome. It's a problem with the forum because viewpoints have become less diverse over the many years I've been on here. It's a problem with social Media in general. Conform or get shutdown

I see a world which has gone through (and the UK is still amidst) a very woke period. The UK is more divisive than ever
Trump and Reform will tip the apple cart in the other direction. Swing politics (which has never worked either). Much of Europe is already shifting
Just treat everyone the same and stop swinging between extremes. The UK in particular is in a total mess and woke has not worked

I'll only post once on the subject as I've learned not to invest much emotional energy in such engagements
Click to expand...
1. Define wokeness for me

2. How is it being shut down? People can reply, no one is threatened with bans. People are just disagreeing.
 
Kent Ref said:
I'll treat that as a "don't know" then.
Click to expand...
I don't think the subject can be successfully debated on any form of Social Media. Hence, I'm reticent for interjecting myself
Any well meaning person wants a similar thing... Harmony of some sort in society. We just disagree on how to best achieve that
We (me and you) agree that free courses is an excessive measure that I believe is self-defeating because it's box-ticking that may spawn resentment

But let's just accept that we don't all agree on the matter because I think we'd have to communicate verbally to have any chance of finding middle ground

What you have to do is what I did above. Charge in an accusatory manner using inflammatory words like 'woke' expressing some strong views in the process, then act as mediator to get the plaudits whilst slipping back into the bushes ;)
 
Last edited:
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top