The Ref Stop

Crystal Palace vs Millwall

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I’ll go devils advocate here - notwithstanding my total agreement with @Runner Ref point about the sustained failing to spot SFP.

MO sees it as a collision type challenge, abetted by the touch on the ball and plays an advantage missing the severity in of the contact. The hand gesture to Will Hughes suggests this. Also under that “entertainment” pressure as it’s a derby game.
 
The Ref Stop
For those that haven't seen it, this is it. I know that stills don't normally tell the full picture, but this one does. Mateta isn't ducking, he is at his full 6'4 height, it is a truly awful challenge.

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RustyRef said:
Given that he didn't even stop play at all I'm pretty sure he didn't see the contact. Even when he did stop play he wasn't exactly quick to get treatment on, I really think he didn't realise the keeper had made any contact. I know we've had this debate about whether referees rely on VAR, but this was such a serious act I just can't see any referee thinking that way. It has made one of the top referees in the world look incompetent, there's no way he would intentionally do that.
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You were once an Observer. As an Observer, you would not accept the excuse that 'I didn't see it'. You would mark the Referee down aggressively on a competency. If you were in a lenient mood you'd wrongly fudge it into 'positioning and movement'
This is not a Schumacher repeat, but in the modern game, it is an extraordinary instance of Serious Foul Play
It is indefensible that an elite Referee would fail to identify it for what it was. Quite honestly, I'm not the finest R that ever graced the pitches of the Three Counties, nonetheless, I'd consider jacking it in if I watched myself miss a challenge like this on Twitter or YouTubeRef. I've considered my enthusiasm for carrying on for a lot less

I have never argued that Referees deliberately leave the game to VAR. You should know that
I actually defend our SG1 Referees, in that I insist they are only this bad because they have VAR looking over their shoulder
I refuse to accept that in the absence of VAR (and incessant guidance from the PGMOL), that elite referees are this bad. Therefore, it is you and other members who indirectly argue that they really are dreadful. I don't believe your inference is plausible and I'm arguing that Michael Oliver must be separable from a Referee on Hackney Marshes if it wasn't for all the interference he's subjected to
 
RustyRef said:
For those that haven't seen it, this is it. I know that stills don't normally tell the full picture, but this one does. Mateta isn't ducking, he is at his full 6'4 height, it is a truly awful challenge.

View attachment 7965
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I was going to post similar images. And the angle of your image is pretty much MO's angle and he is looking directly at it. If you look at it two or three frames later Mateta's head is tilted back almost 90 degrees and all of Roberts' foot would be visible to MO above his head. At the very least this is a foul of playing in a dangerous manner with contact. You can't have 'just a coming together' with one player's foot in that position. It's baffling how he missed it with a reasonably good angle.

Screenshot_20250302-115838~2.jpg


Screenshot_20250302-115913.jpg
 
Runner Ref said:
To add to the above, someone’s just sent me the below

View attachment 7969
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If that's the angle that he had, how he hasn't even cautioned him or sent him off before VAR intervenes is extremely poor. I get if he's playing advantage but with that angle you can tell its SFP straight away.

I'm still very suprised the Keeper has gone to kick that considering how high it is. Collides with Mateta at nearly 6 and a half feet in the air. Impressive he's able to get that much height.
 
I've said in the past, though still not saying it is fact, but i genuinely feel referees today are too reliant on VAR.
They can afford a mistake and VAR can (and should) correct them.
Its the safe refereeing we always refer to.

In this instance could it also be confidence.
He has recently had a red card rescinded that some outside the Emirates and former hardmen players circle still think it's red.
If he gives, and sends off, and is found to be wrong he will ge vilified again. He also had death threats didn't he? Family had threats?
His confidence is highly likely to be shot. And this won't have helped.

I have also said that I've felt that MO has, in the past, been too "****y" and arrogant. Believes he is the best thing. And with that rarely gets sent to the screen (if he was for the MLS one would he have corrected his own decision that day to just a yellow? If he was, he may have saved a lot of criticism and accusations by holding hand up and saying i got it wrong). Newer refs to the league tend to listen to him more than tell him what to do.

I personally think it may be time for him to step down for a weeks and re evaluate himself. Get out of the firing line.
I know we say to new refs "it's last weeks game", "you'll learn from this" etc but this is, for me, entirely different. He's at the top of the game with worldwide attention on him and not just 22 people on a park.
 
Big Cat said:
You were once an Observer. As an Observer, you would not accept the excuse that 'I didn't see it'. You would mark the Referee down aggressively on a competency. If you were in a lenient mood you'd wrongly fudge it into 'positioning and movement'
This is not a Schumacher repeat, but in the modern game, it is an extraordinary instance of Serious Foul Play
It is indefensible that an elite Referee would fail to identify it for what it was. Quite honestly, I'm not the finest R that ever graced the pitches of the Three Counties, nonetheless, I'd consider jacking it in if I watched myself miss a challenge like this on Twitter or YouTubeRef. I've considered my enthusiasm for carrying on for a lot less

I have never argued that Referees deliberately leave the game to VAR. You should know that
I actually defend our SG1 Referees, in that I insist they are only this bad because they have VAR looking over their shoulder
I refuse to accept that in the absence of VAR (and incessant guidance from the PGMOL), that elite referees are this bad. Therefore, it is you and other members who indirectly argue that they really are dreadful. I don't believe your inference is plausible and I'm arguing that Michael Oliver must be separable from a Referee on Hackney Marshes if it wasn't for all the interference he's subjected to
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I'm not saying that him not seeing it means he shouldn't be marked down, it was an obvious incorrect KMD as you will ever see. But there is no way on earth that he has seen it and decided not to act, knowing that VAR would bail him out. One of the world's top referees has made himself look totally incompetent, no referee would willingly do that.

I do think that life is made difficult for PGMOL referees by the constant changing of directives and instructions. But that obviously doesn't apply here, as at no point has there been a directive that kung fu kicking someone in the head is allowed. He just somehow hasn't seen it, it isn't good enough and there are no excuses, but there is zero chance he saw it and decided to wait for VAR.
 
Maybe it will sound like I'm making excuses for him but could the sun in his eyes be a factor how he did not see the incident fully? Somehow the linesman missed it aswell so I do have some sympathy.

However this is what VAR is for, to clear up the clear and obvious errors such as this one. I do believe PGMOL refs have a issue with SFP and in the early days of VAR especially it did feel like refs were going for the safe yellow(as downgrading a red to a yellow would be perceived to be a bigger error) but I just believe in this case case Michael and his team just did not see the challenge for what it was. If he did saw it and give a yellow card then I would argue more that he's relying on VAR to bail him out.
 
Paul_10 said:
Maybe it will sound like I'm making excuses for him but could the sun in his eyes be a factor how he did not see the incident fully? Somehow the linesman missed it aswell so I do have some sympathy.

However this is what VAR is for, to clear up the clear and obvious errors such as this one. I do believe PGMOL refs have a issue with SFP and in the early days of VAR especially it did feel like refs were going for the safe yellow(as downgrading a red to a yellow would be perceived to be a bigger error) but I just believe in this case case Michael and his team just did not see the challenge for what it was. If he did saw it and give a yellow card then I would argue more that he's relying on VAR to bail him out.
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I don't think so, from memory it was the Millwall defenders and keepers who were having problems with the sun, which would imply it was behind Oliver's head rather than him looking into it.

Scrap that, I am thinking of the wrong game.
 
It's a plausible explanation. Checkout the direction of the shadows in the first image in post #25.

however I doubt it is the reason. I think this is a case of looking at it but not seeing it because you are not expecting it. Lack of concentration etc.
 
deusex said:
MO bailed out by VAR and his poor season continues.
To not even see it as a caution is an absolute howler.
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Look out, apparently you need to be careful with statements like that! But I completely agree, another huge error in the run of poor form we're seeing from him.
 
GraemeS said:
Look out, apparently you need to be careful with statements like that! But I completely agree, another huge error in the run of poor form we're seeing from him.
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Unless I have missed it, I don't think anyone has suggested that this wasn't a howler of a decision.
 
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