The Ref Stop

Brighton v Brentford

For me, an easy red. Especially with this point

Violent conduct is when a player uses or attempts to use excessive force or brutality against an opponent when not challenging for the ball, or against a team-mate, team official, match official, spectator or any other person, regardless of whether contact is made
 
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I agree it should be a red card, equally I fully expect the independent panel will come out and back the (non) decision. Just as the other independent panel would have backed Pedro's appeal had he been sent off. It is almost an impossible position for the top level referees these days, they know that in many circumstances if they apply the laws correctly they will be thrown under the bus.
 
RustyRef said:
I agree it should be a red card, equally I fully expect the independent panel will come out and back the (non) decision. Just as the other independent panel would have backed Pedro's appeal had he been sent off. It is almost an impossible position for the top level referees these days, they know that in many circumstances if they apply the laws correctly they will be thrown under the bus.
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We’ll never know whether the panel would have backed the red card or not, but if I was to guess, I’d sway that they’d back it. Especially after backing the Duran red card.

The SFP overturn for Fernandes, as an example, was simple for them to overturn due to the lack of force used. So they can push their justification down that route. But in the case of VC, laws clearly state that striking or attempting to strike an opponent, regardless of making contact or not. So I’d argue it’s a lot more difficult to overturn VC.

But if what you’re saying it true that officials aren’t applying the laws because they know they’ll be thrown under the bus, PGMOL may as well pack up as an organisation.
 
RustyRef said:
Think this might be one of different "rules" at grass roots and the top level. I'm 100% sending off for that at grass roots or there'd be a risk of a riot, but I suspect other than on a refereeing forum there aren't that many complaints that no red was shown here, on the basis there was clearly no contact. Had me racking my brains, how many red cards have there been at the top levels of the game for a swing and a miss?
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Or just different laws/rules at Premier League level compared to any other league in the world it seems at times.

If this happened in the SPL I'm fairly certain Willie Collum will be very critical of his VAR for not intervening and possibly the referee also.

I didn't see the game but it looks like Pedro wasn't even booked for it even though seemingly Andy Mardley was close by and must of saw something and if he didn't see the swinging elbow then surely it must be recommended for a review because the referee has missed it?
 
Runner Ref said:
Very poor from him to not be telling AM to go take a look.

Kavanagh wasn’t sent to the screen for the Fernandes red. He gave it onfield after input from AR.
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So gave it after VAR told him to give it without reviewing it himself.
Lessons learned and all that.
Go look for yourself. Go to monitor and make the decision yourself.
 
For me, this is much ado about nothing in a way.
Yes, it’s a very clear red card in the laws of the game… ‘strikes or attempts to strike’…
However… the premier league does not want red cards for violent conduct in almost instinctive incidents where zero contact was made. It just wouldn’t be an easy sell to the wider footballing audience. Player is clearly pulled back in a promising attack, gets frustrated and reacts slightly with no consequence as he misses. Red card? It wouldn’t feel right to ‘football’.
Very little doubt that while this will clearly get some attention for thaw that know the letter of the law, it’ll get far less than if he was sent off for missing an attempt to elbow someone.
 
RefereeX said:
For me, this is much ado about nothing in a way.
Yes, it’s a very clear red card in the laws of the game… ‘strikes or attempts to strike’…
However… the premier league does not want red cards for violent conduct in almost instinctive incidents where zero contact was made. It just wouldn’t be an easy sell to the wider footballing audience. Player is clearly pulled back in a promising attack, gets frustrated and reacts slightly with no consequence as he misses. Red card? It wouldn’t feel right to ‘football’.
Very little doubt that while this will clearly get some attention for thaw that know the letter of the law, it’ll get far less than if he was sent off for missing an attempt to elbow someone.
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Completely disagree. Its incredibly easy to sell
 
RefereeX said:
For me, this is much ado about nothing in a way.
Yes, it’s a very clear red card in the laws of the game… ‘strikes or attempts to strike’…
However… the premier league does not want red cards for violent conduct in almost instinctive incidents where zero contact was made. It just wouldn’t be an easy sell to the wider footballing audience. Player is clearly pulled back in a promising attack, gets frustrated and reacts slightly with no consequence as he misses. Red card? It wouldn’t feel right to ‘football’.
Very little doubt that while this will clearly get some attention for thaw that know the letter of the law, it’ll get far less than if he was sent off for missing an attempt to elbow someone.
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So what you're saying is when a player is fouled, as long as he shows frustration he can take a swing at an opponent and as long as no contact is made it's fair game?
 
RefereeX said:
For me, this is much ado about nothing in a way.
Yes, it’s a very clear red card in the laws of the game… ‘strikes or attempts to strike’…
However… the premier league does not want red cards for violent conduct in almost instinctive incidents where zero contact was made. It just wouldn’t be an easy sell to the wider footballing audience. Player is clearly pulled back in a promising attack, gets frustrated and reacts slightly with no consequence as he misses. Red card? It wouldn’t feel right to ‘football’.
Very little doubt that while this will clearly get some attention for thaw that know the letter of the law, it’ll get far less than if he was sent off for missing an attempt to elbow someone.
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They can’t keep picking and choosing which laws they enforce and which ones they ignore. Whilst I’m aware that they want a ‘spectacle’ it’s becoming more and more of a spectacle for the wrong reasons.

The PL may not want red cards for someone attempting to fairly violently elbow someone, but fans don’t want long drawn out VAR checks because someone’s toenail was offside.

I was genuinely happy when Howard Webb took over PGMOL, as I believed he’d be able to help take things forward. But it appears that there is a complete and utter mis-management of too much. They’re too hard on some instances one week and then too soft the next. They ignore incidents like this, but then run long drawn out VAR checks for incredibly tight offsides.
 
es1 said:
Completely disagree. Its incredibly easy to sell
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To a group of referees, yes. To a worldwide premier league audience, no.
ladbroke8745 said:
So what you're saying is when a player is fouled, as long as he shows frustration he can take a swing at an opponent and as long as no contact is made it's fair game?
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Not at all. It’s a red card, no doubt about it. But you’re not gonna see it given as a red card in a premier league match. That’s just the reality of the situation.
 
RefereeX said:
To a group of referees, yes. To a worldwide premier league audience, no.

Not at all. It’s a red card, no doubt about it. But you’re not gonna see it given as a red card in a premier league match. That’s just the reality of the situation.
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Not at all. He's literally attempted to assault someone
 
RefereeX said:
To a group of referees, yes. To a worldwide premier league audience, no.

Not at all. It’s a red card, no doubt about it. But you’re not gonna see it given as a red card in a premier league match. That’s just the reality of the situation.
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And the last paragraph sums up the whole setup and mismanagement of PGMOL currently.

I’m not convinced that it’s difficult to sell to a PL audience. I wasn’t even watching the game and my phone went mental with people asking why it wasn’t a red.

In practically every other country, this is a red card and no one would bat an eyelid. It’s another case of us wanting to do stuff differently to everyone else, just because.
 
RefereeX said:
For me, this is much ado about nothing in a way.
Yes, it’s a very clear red card in the laws of the game… ‘strikes or attempts to strike’…
However… the premier league does not want red cards for violent conduct in almost instinctive incidents where zero contact was made. It just wouldn’t be an easy sell to the wider footballing audience. Player is clearly pulled back in a promising attack, gets frustrated and reacts slightly with no consequence as he misses. Red card? It wouldn’t feel right to ‘football’.
Very little doubt that while this will clearly get some attention for thaw that know the letter of the law, it’ll get far less than if he was sent off for missing an attempt to elbow someone.
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I think most fans me included would accept if this was a red and it's backed up by the LOTG from the looks of it.

At that speed, the distance was very small between contact and no contact and there was quite a fair amount of force. To sum it up he didn't even get a yellow for unsporting behaviour if you want to be really lenient about it.

It's incidents like this why our referees are barely progressing in the UEFA/FIFA ranks and 2 FIFA referees didn't think that was a red card. If they did that in a UEFA game, they probably won't get picked again!
 
Looks to me like he's elbow him, then pulls away. Is it me ? If he'd wanted to "do him", i'm sure he would have. Silly summary of the law, though. They've been saying for years you don't have to make contact
 
RefereeX said:
To a group of referees, yes. To a worldwide premier league audience, no.
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Almost every comment I've seen on social media from non-referees agrees that this is a sending off.

I'm fed up of this ******** of having to second-guess "what football expects". Especially when what we're being told what football expects is clearly not what football expects.
 
Just to be clear, I’m not for 1 second suggesting this is not a red card offence. Neither am I suggesting I wouldn’t send off for it in a step 3/4 game. I’m just saying, and maybe I’m wrong, but it did not remotely surprise me that no action was taken in a premier league game. I think you’d be seeing just as much uproar the other way round from less clued up people if he was sent off with no contact
 
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