Abuse from manager

Oh it’s been a weekend for me!

I think I handled this one spot on. However, let’s see how wrong I got it!

U18 boys league match.
Start of match, no parents around to be AR for away team. One of the coaches reluctantly agrees after I said I won’t have a substitute do it.

20 mins into match, said coach flags for offside from the half way line on a play in the penalty box. I thought it was, but I approached him and said “how can you tell from your position? You’re talking to your other coach and subs rather than keeping or even attempting to keep up with play”
He replied “I don’t want to do it and why don’t you do it?”
“I replied happy to if you don’t want to”
He said that he will continue.

He then proceeded to flag in quick succession for offsides that were so obviously onside and right next to me that I waived him down.
When he did it a 3rd time in a row, I came to the conclusion that he is not capable of doing the job and is making the situation worse with the players as obviously they are screaming “offside, look at the Lino ref!”

I decided to remove him. He proceeded to call me a “f wker” and I gave him a red card. A string of profanities following including calling me the C word.

His own players actually sides with me. His captain approaches me and apologises for his coach.

Obviously I’ve put it in my report.
He has messaged me to apologise for his behaviour and said he is going through a hard time and understands that he must pay the price for his behaviour.

So. What have I done wrong? How can I improve my handling of situations.

Ps. Not a single bad challenge in the entire match and not a single card as the game was played in excellent spirit. Was a joy to ref.

Pps. Really annoys me when parents can’t be bothered to help their kids. This is a mega affluent area and really no excuse.

Not sure there's a way to prevent someone calling you something, unless you've done something wrong but in this case you haven't!!

The only bit of advice I can think of is if you don't already, make it clear to the captains at the coin toss that they need to play to the whistle at all times.

A little bit I always add to my briefing to CAR's before the game is don't be annoyed if I overrule you. I make it clear that there will be a valid reason why and that I'm more then happy to explain at the end of the half or match. Obviously in this case, the coach isn't really working with you whatsoever, so anything you would've said would be lost on him.

Josh the referee said:

Not sure there's a way to prevent someone calling you something, unless you've done something wrong but in this case you haven't!!

The only bit of advice I can think of is if you don't already, make it clear to the captains at the coin toss that they need to play to the whistle at all times.

A little bit I always add to my briefing to CAR's before the game is don't be annoyed if I overrule you. I make it clear that there will be a valid reason why and that I'm more then happy to explain at the end of the half or match. Obviously in this case, the coach isn't really working with you whatsoever, so anything you would've said would be lost on him.

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Funnily enough, I do that too. I always tell the players to play to the whistle, and my assistants to not take it personally if I overrule them.

However, as you say. He wasn’t working with me. Literally didn’t move from half way line so he could talk to his other coach and players. Yet flagging with total conviction.
The reason I was monitoring it and located myself further up the field was to monitor his flagging and when I saw him flag for offside when the defender was 2 yards further, I knew I had an issue with him.

Ori said:

One of the coaches reluctantly agrees after I said I won’t have a substitute do it.

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Personal choice or competition rule?

FirsFox40 said:

Personal choice or competition rule?

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Personal choice. In this league if no assistant is provided, I can just play without one.

Have to say, found it difficult. Kept glancing in the direction of where an assistant would be in order to get a call.

I always say the bit about overruling them and not to get upset.
Overruled CAR today, he was convinced an offside #11 had scored after a pass from onside #9 - I saw #9 score and allowed the goal.

I think most of us would vote to get rid of CARs

Big Cat said:

I think most of us would vote to get rid of CARs

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If we had enough qualified referees and clubs/parents were willing to pay for it………

Ori said:

If we had enough qualified referees and clubs/parents were willing to pay for it………

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I might be wrong, but I took it as he meant CAR’s don’t do the offsides. Similar to how it is up my way.

I’ve never had a CAR do anything other than ins and out for throw ins. Not sure if I’d like giving them much more responsibility

Runner Ref said:

I might be wrong, but I took it as he meant CAR’s don’t do the offsides. Similar to how it is up my way.

I’ve never had a CAR do anything other than ins and out for throw ins. Not sure if I’d like giving them much more responsibility

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They do offsides here too too, but not fouls. Although number of times they flag for a foul when they aren’t supposed to always makes me laugh.

CARs mostly fine down here. I just let em know I’m a big boy and I can make my own decisions based on their opinion. Rather have a dude there than not.

(Hampshire based - CARs can do offsides)

Just a note about parents and your comment that they can’t be bothered. It is very rare for parents to go to U18 games in my experience. It starts to die off at U16. A combination of parents have been going for 10 years, the players now make their own way there and the players don’t want their parents there. Don’t assume it’s because they can’t be bothered

Gamespoiler said:

Just a note about parents and your comment that they can’t be bothered. It is very rare for parents to go to U18 games in my experience. It starts to die off at U16. A combination of parents have been going for 10 years, the players now make their own way there and the players don’t want their parents there. Don’t assume it’s because they can’t be bothered

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I do know that. Maybe I just expect more. My son’s team had home and away following right up until his last u18 match. Loads of mums, dads, siblings, dogs……….
Yes loads of them drive, but they drive their parents. We always had a match delegate. We always had dads ready to run the line.

I know I’m judging by a high standard.

You asked for feedback, so please take this as how I would do it and I am wrong a lot.

I disagree (respectfully) with your decision to not let the subs run the line. You are throwing people off from the get go, starting off on the wrong foot. Just let teams play how they play every week if it is within the tournament rules.

You have put the away side in a difficult situation, if their coaches has physical or mental limitations. They let you run the line, but you won't see the line. So they will be at a disadvantage, or they run the line, and can't do it properly, putting them at a disadvantage.

Overall, a pretty crap start from the clubs POV.

Pre-match I recently had an observer who gave me amazing tips and advice (at the sacrifice of a good score, but fair is fair). He told me to brief the CARs in front of the captains at the centre circle. Stay in line, hold the flag properly, outs and offsides only, if you aren't in a credible position, please don't flag.

Then you removed him, which again is embarrassing for him.

He used abusive language towards you. Which is unacceptable.

The build up could have been different. Let them do their thing, until they prove you right.

"I would much prefer a parent or official runs the line"

OldNavyRef said:

You asked for feedback, so please take this as how I would do it and I am wrong a lot.

I disagree (respectfully) with your decision to not let the subs run the line. You are throwing people off from the get go, starting off on the wrong foot. Just let teams play how they play every week if it is within the tournament rules.

You have put the away side in a difficult situation, if their coaches has physical or mental limitations. They let you run the line, but you won't see the line. So they will be at a disadvantage, or they run the line, and can't do it properly, putting them at a disadvantage.

Overall, a pretty crap start from the clubs POV.

Pre-match I recently had an observer who gave me amazing tips and advice (at the sacrifice of a good score, but fair is fair). He told me to brief the CARs in front of the captains at the centre circle. Stay in line, hold the flag properly, outs and offsides only, if you aren't in a credible position, please don't flag.

Then you removed him, which again is embarrassing for him.

He used abusive language towards you. Which is unacceptable.

The build up could have been different. Let them do their thing, until they prove you right.

"I would much prefer a parent or official runs the line"

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There's also competition rules. Rule 23(C) of the Standard Code of Rules (SCoR) states this ...

Where assistant referees are not appointed each Team shall provide a Club assistant referee. Failure to comply with this Rule will result in a fine in accordance with the Fines Tariff

None of that is in italic in SCoR which means it isn't optional and isn't changeable, which means that is how it has to appear in every league's rules from step 7 and below. There is nothing there to say that a substitute cannot be that club assistant referee, so a referee saying that a substitute cannot hold the flag is really making up their own rules.

Old navy, I appreciate the advice and of course I take it in the spirit it is given.

My thoughts on subs running the line is it’s bad all round. Sometimes they give offsides out of bias and other times they don’t out of the fear of being accused of bias. Everytime I have had one it has been awful.

I didn’t ban using a sub, I said I prefer it if they didn’t. I’m also not a fan of coaches doing the line.
Parents is the lesser of the evils and comes with its own perils as we all know.

I felt I had to remove him due to what I felt was dishonesty with the flag.

When the club asked me what happened, I advised them that they need to supply an AR to avoid these issues.

I agree that removing him probably embarrassed him and maybe I should have handled that better. I guess I could have just kept dismissing his call, but that equally could embarrass him?
I also had quotes from players asking what’s the point of having a Lino if you ignore him.

It’s all a tough balance.

I like the idea of briefing the Lino’s in front of the captains. I may incorporate that into my matches.

RustyRef said:

There's also competition rules. Rule 23(C) of the Standard Code of Rules (SCoR) states this ...

Where assistant referees are not appointed each Team shall provide a Club assistant referee. Failure to comply with this Rule will result in a fine in accordance with the Fines Tariff

None of that is in italic in SCoR which means it isn't optional and isn't changeable, which means that is how it has to appear in every league's rules from step 7 and below. There is nothing there to say that a substitute cannot be that club assistant referee, so a referee saying that a substitute cannot hold the flag is really making up their own rules.

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How does that work if they want to bring that player on after 20 mins? Do I have to brief a new assistant in the middle of the match? The player coming off takes his role? It’s not practical at youth level.
Or is that player now not eligible to play?

I e had situations where they have offered me a 10 year old to run the line on an u18 match.

Whatever the rule is, it has to be practically implemented.

Ori said:

How does that work if they want to bring that player on after 20 mins? Do I have to brief a new assistant in the middle of the match? The player coming off takes his role? It’s not practical at youth level.
Or is that player now not eligible to play?

I e had situations where they have offered me a 10 year old to run the line on an u18 match.

Whatever the rule is, it has to be practically implemented.

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At youth level it can't be a junior, so that is easier. At adult level you brief them as they change, or if you know this is likely to be an issue brief the whole team before the game on the basis any of them could be a CAR.

@Ori I rarely have an issue with CARs. Just don't over think it. You sound turbo against them and that could be a problem in itself.

If they keep in line and they flag. Just relax and go with them. Try not to get too clever. Talk to them, give them thumbs up, crush dissent by being vocal.

I don't know if you work with neutrals a lot, but when you do. Your neutrals get accused of being wrong non-stop. So CARs don't stand a chance.

If they want to change a CAR. Just let it happen. I don't rebrief. If they start doing a poor job on the line. Speak with them.

There is a minimum age of 16 I think from a previous post.

RustyRef said:

At youth level it can't be a junior, so that is easier. At adult level you brief them as they change, or if you know this is likely to be an issue brief the whole team before the game on the basis any of them could be a CAR.

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So a sub can’t be assistant a junior level?