The Ref Stop

Crystal Palace v Leicester City

There is a well understood optical illusion when comparing head height with ground level. The lines drawn down to the ground are not vertical
This has caused controversy before because sometimes one could swear blind a player of offside or onside, but the geometry is misleading
A recurring cause of conspiracy theory because a vertical line down from the shoulder would probably have him offside
It's also part of the absurdity of drawing factual conclusions from line drawing because they don't use a scientific angle when drawing the line down to the ground. They just guess and then claim FACT

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The Ref Stop
David G said:
Toe nail offsides are not expected to return with the semi automatic system.
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From watching Serie A and the Euros then there is literally no margin for error. Anything that the system picks up to be offside will be shown as such unless as I say the PL system will have some margin for error built in(which they might not publicly admit).
 
Paul_10 said:
From watching Serie A and the Euros then there is literally no margin for error. Anything that the system picks up to be offside will be shown as such unless as I say the PL system will have some margin for error built in(which they might not publicly admit).
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PGMOL are developing their own system, not using the one that other countries do, so if they want to retain a margin for error it is within their ability.
 
Big Cat said:
There is a well understood optical illusion when comparing head height with ground level. The lines drawn down to the ground are not vertical
This has caused controversy before because sometimes one could swear blind a player of offside or onside, but the geometry is misleading
A recurring cause of conspiracy theory because a vertical line down from the shoulder would probably have him offside
It's also part of the absurdity of drawing factual conclusions from line drawing because they don't use a scientific angle when drawing the line down to the ground. They just guess and then claim FACT

View attachment 7584
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They don't draw any lines, they just select the furthest forward point of both players and the technology draws the lines, both down to the floor where necessary and then across the pitch. They have to trust the technology, assuming they have picked the correct part of the body, and I believe they select multiple parts to see which is furthest forward.

In any case, even if it is wrong it certainly isn't anywhere near as wrong as Steve Cooper is claiming. I'd say there is even a strong possibility that Matata is behind or level with the ball.
 
RustyRef said:
They don't draw any lines,
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I don't know what they do now, but it was once a manual process to draw the vertical (not vertical) line down to the ground
A very imprecise methodology to produce what was sold as a very accurate result. When it wasn't

My post was merely intended to illustrate that the pictures (like this one) can be quite misleading
 
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David G said:
Forest haven’t moaned much this season and look where they are!!
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Ironic then that Forest moaned a lot and Steve Cooper was manager of, erm, Forest last season. Even if he only last until around Christmas, that was enough time for him to moan last season, and the season before.
So maybe it wasn't Forest, per se, maybe it was Cooper all along.

Ps. He moaned a lot too when in the championship with Swansea. He definitely tried to influence referees this way and they were more (probably) prone to listening than the more experienced names in the Premier League.

Remember his tantrum in the Swansea v Brentford semi final play off game (2020 I believe) where his overreaction to a tackle got Rico Henry sent off (later rescinded).
He moaned about the fact it was rescinded.
 
ladbroke8745 said:
Ironic then that Forest moaned a lot and Steve Cooper was manager of, erm, Forest last season. Even if he only last until around Christmas, that was enough time for him to moan last season, and the season before.
So maybe it wasn't Forest, per se, maybe it was Cooper all along.

Ps. He moaned a lot too when in the championship with Swansea. He definitely tried to influence referees this way and they were more (probably) prone to listening than the more experienced names in the Premier League.

Remember his tantrum in the Swansea v Brentford semi final play off game (2020 I believe) where his overreaction to a tackle got Rico Henry sent off (later rescinded).
He moaned about the fact it was rescinded.
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And he has neglected to mention that his team have already benefited from VAR this season when they intervened to give a goal that the on-pitch officials had disallowed. He really needs to wind his neck in and focus on getting his team playing well enough to stay up.
 
Not expressly stated but inferred under 11.1 with being level. The use of the word clearly in Law 1.2 is also an inferred benefit of doubt viz

interfering with an opponent by:
• preventing an opponent from playing or being able to play the ball by clearly obstructing the opponent’s line of vision or
• challenging an opponent for the ball or
• clearly attempting to play a ball which is close when this action impacts on an opponent or …
 
You are inferring something that isn’t there. You absolutely cannot extrapolate from the use of clearly in some forms of active involvement to applying a benefit of the doubt on OS position.

Nor does “level” mean there is a benefit of the doubt. As refs without VAR back up, we need to be confident a player was actually in OSP to make a call, but OSP is an objective decision, and the Laws are clear as to what body parts count.
 
socal lurker said:
You are inferring something that isn’t there. You absolutely cannot extrapolate from the use of clearly in some forms of active involvement to applying a benefit of the doubt on OS position.

Nor does “level” mean there is a benefit of the doubt. As refs without VAR back up, we need to be confident a player was actually in OSP to make a call, but OSP is an objective decision, and the Laws are clear as to what body parts count.
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So if an AR is not sure about whether the body parts are offside what should be his/her decision?
 
RustyRef said:
PGMOL are developing their own system, not using the one that other countries do, so if they want to retain a margin for error it is within their ability.
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Are they? Well it will be interesting if they do put a margin for error in and it will be interesting how it will work when producing the graphic.
 
They are producing something "using AI" to find the correct kick point as they don't have the rights to use the ball sensor.
They may have to add a margin of error as it'll be less accurate.

The graphics will be the same.
 
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