A&H

4th Official duties confirmed...

Steve Fall

Steve Fall

Member
Level 4 Referee
Thanks to the updates today:

Fourth Official Appointments

All Step 3/Step 4 referees and Step 2 assistant referees will be appointed as 4th official to Step 2 fixtures(National League North/South fixtures).Your standard kit should be worn on matchday.Step 2 clubs who use a black/navy kit which clashes with the match official’s kit are to bringalternative coloured Nike referee shirts for use by the assistant referees and 4th official.
 
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4th official without comms compared to with comms is a different kettle of fish. You feel so much more part of the team, able to assist the referee etc with comms, but if the league / it's clubs have asked for 4th officials, it's correct that the FA wouldn't just suddenly implement the use of comms amongst all officials, most of whom would probably not have used them for that particular role before, and heaven knows the cost implications also.

I would hope that comms may be considered for 25/26 season if 4th officials are still to be used at that level, but who knows?
 
RefereeX said:
4th official without comms compared to with comms is a different kettle of fish. You feel so much more part of the team, able to assist the referee etc with comms, but if the league / it's clubs have asked for 4th officials, it's correct that the FA wouldn't just suddenly implement the use of comms amongst all officials, most of whom would probably not have used them for that particular role before, and heaven knows the cost implications also.

I would hope that comms may be considered for 25/26 season if 4th officials are still to be used at that level, but who knows?
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Main reason Comms not introduced at NL North & South is because of cost - I believe over £100,000. It may be introduced at this level in the fullness of time.
 
David G said:
Main reason Comms not introduced at NL North & South is because of cost - I believe over £100,000. It may be introduced at this level in the fullness of time.
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I have heard similar. There was a dispute amongst the PGMOL, NL and clubs. Cost could be nearer to £200,000 before discounts.
 
RefereeX said:
4th official without comms compared to with comms is a different kettle of fish. You feel so much more part of the team, able to assist the referee etc with comms, but if the league / it's clubs have asked for 4th officials, it's correct that the FA wouldn't just suddenly implement the use of comms amongst all officials, most of whom would probably not have used them for that particular role before, and heaven knows the cost implications also.

I would hope that comms may be considered for 25/26 season if 4th officials are still to be used at that level, but who knows?
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You would hope so. I did a National League Prem game as 4th without comms when one of the sets broke and it was a pretty thankless task.

That being said, with 5 subs and no limit on substitution opportunities in all 3 NL divisions this season, there will be a lot of work with those lovely sub boards.
 
Quarryref said:
You would hope so. I did a National League Prem game as 4th without comms when one of the sets broke and it was a pretty thankless task.

That being said, with 5 subs and no limit on substitution opportunities in all 3 NL divisions this season, there will be a lot of work with those lovely sub boards.
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I think the important thing is, is that there are 4th officials at this level of football. There are many occasions when the games go fine, but there are definitely occasions when a 4th official would be appropriate - though even at this level of football, some changing rooms will be tight, especially with an Observer appointed to 100% of games. Whether the sum of money involved was over £100,000 or closer to £200,000, it’s a lot of money to commit by anybody in current climate, so best to take small steps to start with, along with an ambition of providing comms in the future.
 
David G said:
I think the important thing is, is that there are 4th officials at this level of football. There are many occasions when the games go fine, but there are definitely occasions when a 4th official would be appropriate - though even at this level of football, some changing rooms will be tight, especially with an Observer appointed to 100% of games. Whether the sum of money involved was over £100,000 or closer to £200,000, it’s a lot of money to commit by anybody in current climate, so best to take small steps to start with, along with an ambition of providing comms in the future.
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But the expectation when you make L4 is to have Buzzer flags and they are between £350-£800 for a set (depending on brand and flag quantity). So £100 for a comms kit is a lot cheaper..
 
Steve Fall said:
But the expectation when you make L4 is to have Buzzer flags and they are between £350-£800 for a set (depending on brand and flag quantity). So £100 for a comms kit is a lot cheaper..
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Though the difference being that Referees are expected to pay for their own buzzer flags, whereas if Comms were to be introduced on NLN and South, then the FA would fund. At a meeting yesterday the cost was placed at £300,000. Negotiations are continuing with the hope of a sponsor(s) being found to fund.
 
When you consider that the PGMOL receives funding from the PL to better prepare referees for the elite levels and the recent change to levels (abolishment of 2A), it does seem illogical to delay the usage of comms at Level 2. Even if split amongst all Step 2 clubs, it would be around £4000, likely less.
 
RefGod said:
When you consider that the PGMOL receives funding from the PL to better prepare referees for the elite levels and the recent change to levels (abolishment of 2A), it does seem illogical to delay the usage of comms at Level 2. Even if split amongst all Step 2 clubs, it would be around £4000, likely less.
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I agree with the principal, though I am not sure where you got £4,000, which is only scratching the surface with the cost. However, my personal view is that the introduction of a 4th official is a big positive step & with the potential of significant funds across the country being anticipated with fines to players for steps 5 downwards for sin bins, as well as potential sponsors being found, it may not be too long before comms are introduced for NLN & S.
 
David G said:
I agree with the principal, though I am not sure where you got £4,000, which is only scratching the surface with the cost. However, my personal view is that the introduction of a 4th official is a big positive step & with the potential of significant funds across the country being anticipated with fines to players for steps 5 downwards for sin bins, as well as potential sponsors being found, it may not be too long before comms are introduced for NLN & S.
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Fines for steps 5 and below are paid to county FAs. Those funds are unlikely to be funnelled up to fund Comms at higher levels.
 
JamesL said:
Fines for steps 5 and below are paid to county FAs. Those funds are unlikely to be funnelled up to fund Comms at higher levels.
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I agree they have always in the past and may continue for now and in the future, especially when there appear to be shortfalls in county FA finances. However, that doesn’t mean to say the central FA can’t tweak when they are aware they have shortfalls themselves.
 
David G said:
I agree with the principal, though I am not sure where you got £4,000, which is only scratching the surface with the cost. However, my personal view is that the introduction of a 4th official is a big positive step & with the potential of significant funds across the country being anticipated with fines to players for steps 5 downwards for sin bins, as well as potential sponsors being found, it may not be too long before comms are introduced for NLN & S.
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Then how much do you estimate the cost to be if evenly split amongst all Step 2 clubs ?
 
RefGod said:
Then how much do you estimate the cost to be if evenly split amongst all Step 2 clubs ?
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That’s the issue - quite a lot & there is currently non-agreement between clubs etc as to how much to be paid. So in answer to your question I have no idea and whether or not it will be the same for all clubs etc
 
Realistically, the PGMOL should be funding this but I am entirely in agreement with those who reference the positive move of 4th officials.
There is the reality of a first year Level 2 with two specialist 4s on the line having to deal with injury to an official pre kick-off. If that's the referee, we then have a specialist AR in the middle with a club official, potentially in front of 2000 fans.
 
RefGod said:
Realistically, the PGMOL should be funding this but I am entirely in agreement with those who reference the positive move of 4th officials.
There is the reality of a first year Level 2 with two specialist 4s on the line having to deal with injury to an official pre kick-off. If that's the referee, we then have a specialist AR in the middle with a club official, potentially in front of 2000 fans.
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I suspect one of the issues is with the PGMOL is that strictly speaking they cover from PL to National League Prem & not North & South. However, I still think they will provide at least some funding, to be negotiated. In the last few years with Specialist ARs i have never come across 2 Level 4s on the same game simply because of the reason you mention (but doesn’t mean to say it won’t/can’t happen) & i think the 4th officials this season will be L3s.
 
RefGod said:
Realistically, the PGMOL should be funding this but I am entirely in agreement with those who reference the positive move of 4th officials.
There is the reality of a first year Level 2 with two specialist 4s on the line having to deal with injury to an official pre kick-off. If that's the referee, we then have a specialist AR in the middle with a club official, potentially in front of 2000 fans.
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L3 pool includes SARs so could have a full house of SARs
 
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