The Ref Stop

Bishop's Stortford FC v Spennymoor Town FC

The Ref Stop
Great clip.

I think this is one of those situations where the considerations are useful but also not the whole story.

You can have doubt about: likelihood of control, location/number of defenders and distance. So if you say yellow, OK.

But if, in the opinion of the referee, you tell me without the foul the player has control and an empty net I could accept the red card.

I do think yellow is an acceptable outcome here. Match context also plays a part.
 
Feels like it should be a red on first viewing but I agree looking at the dogso criteria particularly the defenders and control would not hit the threshold despite the direction and distance criteria being met.

Caution is correct, I think most players / spectators would be expect a red.
 
Attacker is never recovering that ball even if not fouled. Overhit because of the condition of the pitch. Caution suffices under those circumstances for me.
 
I think there is enough doubt as to whether the attacker would be getting the ball to go with a caution.
 
In terms of intuition and 'understanding the game', this offence is 'denying an obvious goalscoring opportunity'
In terms of the tick box considerations in the LOTG, it's less clear. It's near on impossible to marry human intuition with the written word, so we often end up with the wrong decision for the game, even though the decision may be justifiable by the written word.
In a nutshell, I wanna see the keeper sent off here and I think a brave Referee would do so. However, the written word gives the Ref an out
 
Even outside of is it DOGSO or not, we have the question of RP or SFP.
Then there's the discussion of the referee's starting position and movement/recovery.
 
RefGod said:
Even outside of is it DOGSO or not, we have the question of RP or SFP.
Then there's the discussion of the referee's starting position and movement/recovery.
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For me it’s not at the threshold for SFP, I’d go with reckless.
The referee made a decent recovery sprint but didn’t get any angle on it.
 
First look, red.

Slowed down replay, I'd say yellow.

I like how @Big Cat has really strong opinions that are often contrary to to the current consensus (I genuinely respect it, game of opinions and all).

But for me the touch the attack took before the keeper wipe-out, was just awful, so it removes the obvious for me.

Goal scoring opportunity, sure. Obvious, nah.
 
Looks to me like the ball deflects off the goalkeeper as he lunges in .

I think the attacker may have been shooting rather than just trying to knock it past the goalkeeper.
 
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Big Cat said:
In terms of intuition and 'understanding the game', this offence is 'denying an obvious goalscoring opportunity'
In terms of the tick box considerations in the LOTG, it's less clear. It's near on impossible to marry human intuition with the written word, so we often end up with the wrong decision for the game, even though the decision may be justifiable by the written word.
In a nutshell, I wanna see the keeper sent off here and I think a brave Referee would do so. However, the written word gives the Ref an out
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I've watched it 3 times now - what about SFP as the keeper dives 2 footed off of the ground
 
Agree with the majority of the DOGSO - recovering left-sided defender would at least be in a position to challenge for the next touch, so yellow is sufficient.

I'd accept a red for the SFP though - it's a big off-the-ground lunge, totally out of control. Again his saving grace here might be that he landed at the moment he made contact, so you can argue he'd "regained" control, and point of contact will be low, but it could definitely go either way.
 
One of those football expects a different outcome to law.
Everyone expects a red card here.
However, I think a yellow was the correct outcome.

Defender is ahead of the attacker, so likelihood to regain control of the ball is in doubt
There were to defenders in close proximity.
Distance and direction probably met but significant doubt over the other 2 criteria to say it's a yellow for reckless challenge
 
JamesL said:
Everyone expects a red card here.
However, I think a yellow was the correct outcome.
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That's the problem James. Your statement (which I agree with) is a binary contradiction. The fact that 'everyone expects a red card here', means that I'm heavily leaning towards giving the game what it wants, expects and deserves. Otherwise the Ref (and we as Refereeing Community) is deemed an 'idiot' by 'everyone' you stated. The issue being, that we're married to 'considerations' that will never be able to replace 'understanding of the game' common sense and expectation in every situation
 
OldNavyRef said:
First look, red.

Slowed down replay, I'd say yellow.

I like how @Big Cat has really strong opinions that are often contrary to to the current consensus (I genuinely respect it, game of opinions and all).

But for me the touch the attack took before the keeper wipe-out, was just awful, so it removes the obvious for me.

Goal scoring opportunity, sure. Obvious, nah.
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When you read into what I'm saying though, I'm not disagreeing with anyone. I know what the book states etc.... and I'm backing the yellow card the ref issued. However, 'everyone' expects red, so I'm very much opposed to the fact that our guidance or considerations leads us to the wrong outcome and makes us look stupid. Of course, I'm opposed to referees reaching the wrong outcome. It's strange, because we don't bother with some aspects of Law entirely, other sections of Law we apply loosely, but then there's some Law we adhere to fastidiously, even when common sense is staring us in the face

And yes, you're quite right. I do look for opportunities to go against the grain. Opportunities to get us all thinking. Sometimes my posts are intentionally controversial if I feel that some good might come of it
 
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5.10. Goalkeeper catching the ball, dropping it, then scrambling on the deck to re-scoop it back into his arms. Ref just plays on(?) Or am I seeing things?

Edit: Or does an opponent touch it before he re-gathers?
 
Kes said:
5.10. Goalkeeper catching the ball, dropping it, then scrambling on the deck to re-scoop it back into his arms. Ref just plays on(?) Or am I seeing things?

Edit: Or does an opponent touch it before he re-gathers?
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The goalkeeper did not have 'control' of the ball until he eventually re-scooped it into his arms. Everything else before that would be classed as a 'save' (technically speaking).
 
Big Cat said:
The goalkeeper did not have 'control' of the ball until he eventually re-scooped it into his arms. Everything else before that would be classed as a 'save' (technically speaking).
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Can't agree there BC. To my mind, he catches it. He has it (momentarily) between both hands. He then drops it in order to break his fall.

Having said the above and now re-watched it several times, I'm of the opinion that an attacker at least touches the ball before he grabs it and so I'm waffling anyway ... ;) :p
 
Kes said:
Can't agree there BC. To my mind, he catches it. He has it (momentarily) between both hands. He then drops it in order to break his fall.

Having said the above and now re-watched it several times, I'm of the opinion that an attacker at least touches the ball before he grabs it and so I'm waffling anyway ... ;) :p
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I've just watched it again as well. You must be living in a different Matrix from me? Or there's a glitch in the Matrix code... :eek:
My Matrix does involve being in the GK Union however (which is where my nickname Big Cat emanates from... bet u didn't know that)
 
Tealeaf said:
Attacker is never recovering that ball even if not fouled. Overhit because of the condition of the pitch. Caution suffices under those circumstances for me.
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I am ok with caution (though I would go red) if the ref is giving reasonable explanation of doubts on considerations but I'd don't agree with attacker not recovering the ball. A defender further away recovered it even though he slowed down at the end.
 
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