New LoTG - Injuries - Liking it!!
- Thread starter Dicky Herts
- Start date
bester
RefChat Addict
@one You've prompted some scenarios
Player leaving the field of play takes longer than 10 seconds and commits dissents.
Does the substitute now have to wait a full 10 or even 11 minutes before coming on?
Remember the substitution must take place after the 10 seconds, so is he effectively a substituted player after the 10 seconds have elapsed
Player coming on commits dissent after the 10 seconds has elapsed.
Does he have to wait for 10 or 11 minutes to come on?
Ie When does he become a player rather than a substitute. Is it when he crosses the touchline, when the player coming off crosses the touchline or after that 10 seconds have elapsed?
Player leaving the field of play takes longer than 10 seconds and commits dissents.
Does the substitute now have to wait a full 10 or even 11 minutes before coming on?
Remember the substitution must take place after the 10 seconds, so is he effectively a substituted player after the 10 seconds have elapsed
Player coming on commits dissent after the 10 seconds has elapsed.
Does he have to wait for 10 or 11 minutes to come on?
Ie When does he become a player rather than a substitute. Is it when he crosses the touchline, when the player coming off crosses the touchline or after that 10 seconds have elapsed?
one
RefChat Addict
Yeah I had all this in my head but couldn't be bothered typing at 3am. In sub senario, while they are both off the field during the one minute, one or both dissent/s (3 scenarios), what is the outcome?
Can of worms.
This is why I posted the question I did a few days ago, was told this exact same thing from a L3 on a game I did at an academy.... again thats what they'd been told on a zoom call!I thought this was the case then I got told by a level 4 who was on one of the zoom calls for the season ahead that they only go off if they receive treatment ? And he was told so on the zoom call….. seems a lot of confusion between a few of my colleagues down here
Dicky Herts
Member
I’ve heard this a few times now. I suspect there’s some confusion with the zoom call because unless the FA specifically state that they have some local / national exception then it’s clear in the new LoTG. My guess is whoever delivered that message on this zoom call is now a bit embarrassed and probably got a bollicking.
We had a good debate in the changing room as he asked how my games were going and said "player only goes off if having treatment" to which I was not wanting to correct a Level 3...but...
Yes, I raised an eyebrow a few times on the Zoom call. Some mistakes and inconsistencies. The in-person road-trip things have been poor of late too.
I don't think the new chap is anywhere near as good as his two predecessors
Dicky Herts
Member
I personally think it’s very poor if a L3 has instructed this on a L4 and higher zoom call. I would have challenged it. It suggests that the L3 had not studied or understood the rationale for this change, one of which is players feigning head orchestrated serious injury in order to stop the opposition attacking.
We were told that once the substitute board is in the air the sub is final. So if a player is sent off, sin binned, refuses to leave the pitch (like Kepa), it doesn't matter. The sub is made.
Eg. the player leaving the pitch is immediately counted as a technical area occupant, so can't be sin binned. Red card still means the sub is coming on.
socal lurker
RefChat Addict
I’ve had the same thought about this. It seems a relic from the days the Game was really for and about the players. Seems IFAB may not even remember it is in there.
one
RefChat Addict
Yet is has come handy when it has happened. There has been a couple of high profile ones in the last few years.
But now with the intro of a 10 second limit, we seem to have a clash and I don't think simply removing it is sufficient. What do we do if a player refuses to be subbed.
socal lurker
RefChat Addict
If we didn’t have that “can refuse” language, it’s easy. By refusing to leave, the player is delaying the restart and can be cautioned.
The 10 second rule seems—yet again— IFAB doing something without really sorting through all the implications to fully address the issue.
(It’s tough to change from a concept based set of Laws based on ITOOTR) to a didactic set of all encompassing regulations to meet every scenario. And the blend is rather Frankenstein-ish.)
one
RefChat Addict
How is the player delaying the restart if he is not the one taking it or stopping anyone else from taking it?
And since when do we enforce players to take instructions from their managers? If we do it in this instance where do we draw the line? At a stoppage the manager, after permission, asks striker to swap places with the keeper. Striker refuses. What do you do?
Cautioning for delaying the restart is a much worse solution than "play continues".
Agree about IFAB not thinking through the implications though.
socal lurker
RefChat Addict
If the player is required to leave because the sub has been announced, then he is delaying the restart by not leaving the field.
And I totally agree it is a mess now. Indeed, if a player realizes he has taken more than 10 seconds, he should refuse to come off, as then his team doesn't have to play short . . . All in all, as we have said many times before, IFAB really needs a better editor that can look at how changes affect things not being changed.
socal lurker
RefChat Addict
This one is explicit in the Laws:
The substitution is completed when a substitute enters the field of play;
from that moment, the replaced player becomes a substituted player and
the substitute becomes a player and can take any restart.
All substituted players and substitutes are subject to the referee’s authority,
But it does seem strange that the guy who came off and is sitting with his boots off and a t-shirt on remains technically a player . . . yet again, not putting all the pieces together . . . (In US high school rules, the substitution is complete when the player exits the field--with these new tweaks, that may now make more sense.)
Despite all the highlighted pitfalls, at a Supply League Game I was at last Saturday, the Referee had many different scenarios involving the new Laws concerning substitutions/treatment of injury etc & all were appropriately dealt with, raising his performance both in respect of Match Control & Re-starts of play. It may well be that when Step 2 clubs upwards to the Premier League etc get their teeth into things they will be straight into identifying the loopholes, but for now, I am enjoying the naivety/refreshing step 5 teams trying to do the right thing under the eye of a very competent & confident Referee.
