City v Newcastle

[David F]

Thoughts on Dan Burn’s disallowed goal for offside? Not sure on the VAR protocol - fairly sure it can’t be a goal because an offside offence has been committed, and can’t be a PK because the ball was not in play at the time of the push, but can they award a re-take of the DFK? Pushing the defender offside just before the ball is played seems like something they may need to outlaw to avoid it becoming a widespread tactic.

https://twitter.com/x/status/2025440711580024961

 

[David F]

(apologies for the “corrupt” bit on the X link, couldn’t find any other video of the incident - obv not endorsing that)

 

[Goldfish]

Only possible decision is to disallow the goal. Dias could be cautioned for USB yet that happened before the ball was put into play. No possible retake unless the referee tried to stop the free kick from being taken which did not happen. I even think Burns was in an offside position before the kick.
Anyway the game has brought on all these shenanigans at set pieces through a lack of calling pushing and pulling. There is the silliness of play being held up to speak to players as per the law book yet it has little if any affect.

 

[Big Cat]

Thoughts on Dan Burn’s disallowed goal for offside? Not sure on the VAR protocol - fairly sure it can’t be a goal because an offside offence has been committed, and can’t be a PK because the ball was not in play at the time of the push, but can they award a re-take of the DFK? Pushing the defender offside just before the ball is played seems like something they may need to outlaw to avoid it becoming a widespread tactic.

https://twitter.com/x/status/2025440711580024961

Yes, it's quite possible this tactic will latch on now following this occurrence. A lot to be gained from pushing a player offside and virtually no downside. If it does latch on, it may necessitate a Law change... 'no offside offence when pushed into an offside position'

It would be naïve to think this incident has gone unnoticed and won't become a common tactic. Burn may have been offside anyway (tight), or this gap in the rules has just had a significant bearing on who wins the league

It's common to see an offence prior to a restart, have no time to signal prior to the restart, signal after the restart, sanction or warn with respect to the offence and to restart with the original restart. But that doesn't negate what sides can gain or lose by copying this tactic

 

[one]

'no offside offence when pushed into an offside position'

And that would bring about a new set of shenanigans, but this time from attackers. The game now is just as much about who can cheat better as is about who can play better.

 

[DavidObs]

This is what a set-pieces coach have brought to the game - an unlawful rather than skill/clever lawful approach, albeit it on this occasion it was a defensive rather than attacking situation.

 

[one]

This could also lead to the reverse. One attacker pushing a defender to put other attackers onside. Or doing it to just counter defenders pushing attackers.

 

[bloovee]

Oh gosh, another rule change because City have finally caught on to PGMOL's free-for-all policy at set pieces?

What if the player starting in an offside position is pushing a defender to try and get back onside?

 

[ladbroke8745]

And that would bring about a new set of shenanigans, but this time from attackers. The game now is just as much about who can cheat better as is about who can play better.

I've said this before about corners, even throws, on here in the past.
Make the game having been restarted regardless of if the ball has been kicked when the ref blows his whistle.

Should add, by doing this, any foul that happens, such as this, can then be penalised. Any offside, like this, can be left unpunished.

 

[Tealeaf]

Not to be facetious but haven’t defenders being doing this forever?

Except we’ve called it nudging, bumping, and jostling?

 

[bloovee]

Not to be facetious but haven’t defenders being doing this forever?

Except we’ve called it nudging, bumping, and jostling?

My team nudges, bumps and jostles.
Your team pushes, charges, and holds.

Actually, no, it hasn't been going on forever. PGMOL set a "high bar", supposedly, with plenty of scope for subjective interpretation. Yes, you can grab a shirt, but it isn't necessarily a foul.

 

[JamesL]

My team nudges, bumps and jostles.
Your team pushes, charges, and holds.

Actually, no, it hasn't been going on forever. PGMOL set a "high bar", supposedly, with plenty of scope for subjective interpretation. Yes, you can grab a shirt, but it isn't necessarily a foul.

That's just the laws of the game.

 

[RefereeX]

Yes, it's quite possible this tactic will latch on now following this occurrence. A lot to be gained from pushing a player offside and virtually no downside. If it does latch on, it may necessitate a Law change... 'no offside offence when pushed into an offside position'

It would be naïve to think this incident has gone unnoticed and won't become a common tactic. Burn may have been offside anyway (tight), or this gap in the rules has just had a significant bearing on who wins the league

It's common to see an offence prior to a restart, have no time to signal prior to the restart, signal after the restart, sanction or warn with respect to the offence and to restart with the original restart. But that doesn't negate what sides can gain or lose by copying this tactic

I don't think much will change from it. I think it's probably been happening for a while, but it's been highlighted because Burn scored.
I think it's less of a problem than the similar one at the other end where attackers will push back defenders to play everyone onside.

 

[No Anchor]

Coming back to this—what if the push occurred after the ball had been kicked? The goal still must be waived off, as Dunk has scored from an offside position. Now the referee would have to decide if the push was enough for a foul, and therefore a PK.

 

[Goldfish]

Law 11 is clear on this
“a player in an offside position is moving towards the ball with the intention of playing the ball and is fouled before playing or attempting to play the ball, or challenging an opponent for the ball, the foul is penalised as it has occurred before the offside offence”

So if the ball was in play it would be either a free kick or a penalty depending on the location.

 

[RustyRef]

Law 11 is clear on this
“a player in an offside position is moving towards the ball with the intention of playing the ball and is fouled before playing or attempting to play the ball, or challenging an opponent for the ball, the foul is penalised as it has occurred before the offside offence”

So if the ball was in play it would be either a free kick or a penalty depending on the location.

It would in theory, but what if the push was deemed to be not strong enough to be a foul? In that case it would presumably still be offside, even though he was manoeuvred into that position whilst the ball was in play.

 

[one]

It would in theory, but what if the push was deemed to be not strong enough to be a foul? In that case it would presumably still be offside, even though he was manoeuvred into that position whilst the ball was in play.

If by strong enough you mean careless then fair enough. But for me, if a push puts an opponent from onside to offside and causes a goal to be disallowed, especially if done deliberately, fits the definition of careless.

And it is an unsporting act regardless if done deliberately (on its own an IFK).

 

[RustyRef]

If by strong enough you mean careless then fair enough. But for me, if a push puts an opponent from onside to offside and causes a goal to be disallowed, especially if done deliberately, fits the definition of careless.

And it is an unsporting act regardless if done deliberately (on its own an IFK).

I'm thinking from a PGMO perspective though when we've frequently heard them say that a push isn't enough. It sounds easy from a law perspective, but had the ball been in play I suspect a lot of people would have said the push on Burn was too "soft" for a penalty to be given.

 

[socal lurker]

And it is an unsporting act regardless if done deliberately (on its own an IFK).

Nit pick: (I know you know, but just to not get a myth out there for newer folks reading). It would be a caution for USB, and the restart from that is the IFK. Cannot be an IFK for USB without a caution.

 

[Goldfish]

When is a push not a push. On the Kolo Muani's goal that was disallowed for a push on Gabriel by comparison and using that bar this was without doubt a push.
The game has now got itself into a right mess with determining legality. The amount of serious pushing, holding grappling now at set pieces is epidemic. Everton corners v Man Utd were a joke with no foul sanctions. Players are heedless to referee interventions. There were cards for Tarkowski and Yoro after both got into right pushing match with Yoro thrown to the ground in the back of the net. That was it. Players do this now with impunity knowing no action will be taken.