The Ref Stop

Man City v Brentford

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Why do you consider the Referee only gave a yellow (& bottled it won’t cut it)? My apologies for replying to a question with a question.
He, incorrectly either thought ake was covering (he wasnt) or that the direction was wider than it really was.

I don't think he's bottled it, he wouldn't be at this level if he did, but he's got this wrong. If I was a Brentford fan I'd be fuming (I'm a city season ticket holder btw)
 
The Ref Stop
He, incorrectly either thought ake was covering (he wasnt) or that the direction was wider than it really was.

I don't think he's bottled it, he wouldn't be at this level if he did, but he's got this wrong. If I was a Brentford fan I'd be fuming (I'm a city season ticket holder btw)
Agree, I think he thought that Ake was round on the cover and I've put in my other reply why I think that was.

No referee at that level "bottles it". It isn't like grass roots where you can dodge a decision based on the knowledge no one will ever know, at this level it will be reviewed by the media (already has been) and his bosses. He also gave the decision very quickly so didn't have time to think about why not to send off, arguably gave it too quickly and perhaps stopped his AR from coming in with advice, the yellow card was out very quickly.
 
Keith Andrews has said in his press conference that officials explained to him the player did not see red because of distance to goal. Apparently he was too far from goal.
 
Keith Andrews has said in his press conference that officials explained to him the player did not see red because of distance to goal. Apparently he was too far from goal.
Yeah, but we know from multiple previous experiences what managers say the referee said isn't necessarily what they said. I like Keith Andrews, I've refereed him and had a lengthy chat with him at a football event, but I find it very hard to believe that a FIFA referee has told him that it wasn't DOGSO because a foul close to the edge of the penalty area was too far from goal. That just makes zero sense.
 
Yeah, but we know from multiple previous experiences what managers say the referee said isn't necessarily what they said. I like Keith Andrews, I've refereed him and had a lengthy chat with him at a football event, but I find it very hard to believe that a FIFA referee has told him that it wasn't DOGSO because a foul close to the edge of the penalty area was too far from goal. That just makes zero sense.
Im not saying its truth. Just saying what he has claimed.
 
You've already pointed out that Sam is not Sunday level. Therefore his ability, reading of matches is far above any of us, with very experienced AR too who can give honest opinions too to "SUPPORT" the referee. If they can't see that as DOGSO on the field of play, then they've clearly got it wrong and an observer should most definitely be telling them that.
Its ok to be wrong. And im sure Sam will look back and say to himself "damn, got that wrong".

Its clear with replays it should have been DOGSO. And VAR would have helped him out.
Questions have always been asked by some on here, but mostly elsewhere, that referees are missing judgement on SFP calls and going safe and being bailed out on occasions but it has that feel of going safe again. A referee of his stature, ability etc should not be going safe. Its like they need confidence to make that call. They clearly have ability, they wouldn't be there.
And I agree with you that Sam will be disappointed once he sees what happened etc. And I agree with Rusty Ref that it was probably his positioning that caused him to administer only a yellow, as well as the advice to remedy. If only a delegate rather than an Observer in this competition then I suspect that from his/her viewing of the footage will say exactly what Rusty Ref has said. My point is that I think that we as a group are quite quick to criticise decisions of a Referee which is easy to do from an armchair looking at clips in slow motion, real time & more than once. But a Referee and any Observer at the game without VAR only have one look/bite of the cherry. So have to be 100% sure what they have seen.
 
Im not saying its truth. Just saying what he has claimed.
The problem is managers are interviewed as soon as the game ends and their emotions are too high. I managed at a decent level, obviously nowhere near the level we are talking here, but I dread to think what I might have said if someone had stuck a microphone in my face as soon as a game ended. I was fuming after plenty of games but had usually calmed down and looked at it a lot more rationally within a few hours.
 
I've just heard Keith Andrew's interview. He doesn't mention distance, he says that the assistant referee felt the attacker's touch was too heavy and took the ball away from goal. Now I can well believe that is what he was told, and that kind of backs up my view that Sam Barrott had a bad view and needed his AR's help. It is still a mistake, but that explanation makes a lot more sense than the challenge was too far from goal.
 
I've just heard Keith Andrew's interview. He doesn't mention distance, he says that the assistant referee felt the attacker's touch was too heavy and took the ball away from goal. Now I can well believe that is what he was told, and that kind of backs up my view that Sam Barrott had a bad view and needed his AR's help. It is still a mistake, but that explanation makes a lot more sense than the challenge was too far from goal.
The interview i have seen looks like its in the press room, video supplied by Niche Sport Media.
Ashamed to say it was posted to TikTok (i am not a member on there but can see the post).
 
It should have been DOGSO, but I think Sam Barrott found it difficult based on his position. This is the time of the foul ...

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Nathan Ake is between him and the offence, and I suspect from the flat viewing angle he has he thinks that Ake is much closer to play than he actually was. A referee never wants to be looking straight down the barrel and that's exactly what he had here, the development advice from me would be to have created an angle. There's an argument to say that the AR should have helped, but we don't know what was said over comms.
I sort of disagree with this for the context. I agree looking down the barrel is not a good position for foul recognition. But once you have recognised the foul, that is actually not a bad position to judge DOGSO considerations.
 
You've already pointed out that Sam is not Sunday level. Therefore his ability, reading of matches is far above any of us, with very experienced AR too who can give honest opinions too to "SUPPORT" the referee. If they can't see that as DOGSO on the field of play, then they've clearly got it wrong and an observer should most definitely be telling them that.
Its ok to be wrong. And im sure Sam will look back and say to himself "damn, got that wrong".

Its clear with replays it should have been DOGSO. And VAR would have helped him out.
Questions have always been asked by some on here, but mostly elsewhere, that referees are missing judgement on SFP calls and going safe and being bailed out on occasions but it has that feel of going safe again. A referee of his stature, ability etc should not be going safe. Its like they need confidence to make that call. They clearly have ability, they wouldn't be there.
I can hear it in my ears about SFP calls and going safe from Messrs Hackett & (from this forum) Runner Ref, though we don’t seem to hear from the latter these days. I’m sure he would be livid with some of the things I’ve said. My view is that those top Referees who never had VAR, they will have the confidence to make brave decisions, especially when they didn’t have social media & 30-60 cameras at their games. These days it’s a different world that many can’t relate to where safe is probably the right word to use, though Referees like Oliver & Taylor are probably braver/stronger than most. I’ve digressed from the non DOGSO incident with the City game, so just to say that it’s clear from everybody else’s comments that they consider it should have been a DOGSO & probably Sam does too by now.
 
I think it's DOGSO but I can absolutely see the reason for SB's doubt. I don't think it's the most stonewall nailed on DOGSO you'll see, but I do think it ticks enough boxes, even for a review to be recommended by VAR had it been in operation.
 
I think it's DOGSO but I can absolutely see the reason for SB's doubt. I don't think it's the most stonewall nailed on DOGSO you'll see, but I do think it ticks enough boxes, even for a review to be recommended by VAR had it been in operation.
I think what happens is the bit we are all subsceptible too which is we take the picture at the wrong time.
 
I think it's DOGSO but I can absolutely see the reason for SB's doubt. I don't think it's the most stonewall nailed on DOGSO you'll see, but I do think it ticks enough boxes, even for a review to be recommended by VAR had it been in operation.
You have said in one paragraph what I was thinking last night in several & even then ….!! 😂
 
Stonewall DOGSO.

Taking the picture at the wrong time doesn't explain this mistake.
If you took a late picture here then you'd see the ball is moving slowly, and the closest defender was running back to cover the goal line.
 
I think pretty much everyone agrees this is a clear DOGSO. Though some 'can see' why there was no red!

The only thing on dispute here is why didn't he show a red. My theory, the pressure put on referees to do all they can to keep all players on the field made him talk himself out of giving a red card. And he now regrets it (hopefully).
 
My point is that I think that we as a group are quite quick to criticise decisions of a Referee which is easy to do from an armchair looking at clips in slow motion, real time & more than once.

I don’t recall anyone here blasting the R for missing it. I see a discussion of whether or not it was DOGSO, and some discussion of why a skilled R would miss it. The point of this forum is to learn as referees. Discussing the calls and why a R may have missed them when they do is a tool for our own games and how to be prepared to identify situations and avoid missing them. Thanks not about being critical of the R—I think all of us would acknowledge that the refs on TV are more accomplished and more likely to get the call right live than we are. Wisdom comes from learning from our mistakes—and from the mistakes of others so we don’t have to make them ourselves.
 
I don’t recall anyone here blasting the R for missing it. I see a discussion of whether or not it was DOGSO, and some discussion of why a skilled R would miss it. The point of this forum is to learn as referees. Discussing the calls and why a R may have missed them when they do is a tool for our own games and how to be prepared to identify situations and avoid missing them. Thanks not about being critical of the R—I think all of us would acknowledge that the refs on TV are more accomplished and more likely to get the call right live than we are. Wisdom comes from learning from our mistakes—and from the mistakes of others so we don’t have to make them ourselves.
I agree with the sentiment.
 
I sort of disagree with this for the context. I agree looking down the barrel is not a good position for foul recognition. But once you have recognised the foul, that is actually not a bad position to judge DOGSO considerations.
It can affect your perception of how close the other defender is, whereas with a wider position you’d see th gap between them.
 
I don’t recall anyone here blasting the R for missing it. I see a discussion of whether or not it was DOGSO, and some discussion of why a skilled R would miss it. The point of this forum is to learn as referees. Discussing the calls and why a R may have missed them when they do is a tool for our own games and how to be prepared to identify situations and avoid missing them. Thanks not about being critical of the R—I think all of us would acknowledge that the refs on TV are more accomplished and more likely to get the call right live than we are. Wisdom comes from learning from our mistakes—and from the mistakes of others so we don’t have to make them ourselves.
Absolutely this. There is a reason behind every mistake, looking for those reasons isn’t trying to say that a mistake hasn’t been made, rather to try and understand why. That reason might be something as basic as the referee switching off, but that is still a reason.

I absolutely guarantee that if VAR had been in use at least one person would have said that referees are scared to make decisions and rely on VAR to bail them out.
 
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