The Ref Stop

Violent Conduct?

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Redref34

Well-Known Member
Level 5 Referee
Does this sound like Violent conduct?

Goalkeeper runs 50 yards to leave the field of play during a stoppage and remonstrate with his own manager.

He grabs hold of him aggressively near the chest and approaching the neck area, pushes him and strikes his chest with an open palm (could be a push or a strike). This goes on for about 30 seconds or so whilst others try to seperate. He also uses abusive language towards his own coach.

Would this best fit into?

Violent Conduct
Using abusive language
Or 2 yellows for leaving field and AA

Thank you
 
The Ref Stop
Sounds like VC to me. "Uses or attempts to use excessive force or brutality". Let's be honest, running 50 yards and grabbing someone near the neck isn't intended to be friendly. Combine this with the push (which sounds more like an intended strike), I'd be going VC.

If selling that is too difficult, you've stated he used abusive language - OFFINABUS. So basically, either way you aren't going 2YC.
 
Follow up: Just thought of something else. If abusive language has been used, then if you do go for VC then the abuse would still have to be reported seperately with an ER I believe.
 
Redref34 said:
Does this sound like Violent conduct?

Goalkeeper runs 50 yards to leave the field of play during a stoppage and remonstrate with his own manager.

He grabs hold of him aggressively near the chest and approaching the neck area, pushes him and strikes his chest with an open palm (could be a push or a strike). This goes on for about 30 seconds or so whilst others try to seperate. He also uses abusive language towards his own coach.

Would this best fit into?

Violent Conduct
Using abusive language
Or 2 yellows for leaving field and AA

Thank you
Click to expand...
Take your pick & in theory could be any of the 3 depending how severe you consider his action to have been with the 3rd in the list being the least severe. Violent conduct may be appealed if not at or above his neck, so your safest bet is with offensive language etc, which as you clearly know doesn’t have to be directed towards the Referee/AR.
 
DavidObs said:
Take your pick & in theory could be any of the 3 depending how severe you consider his action to have been with the 3rd in the list being the least severe. Violent conduct may be appealed if not at or above his neck, so your safest bet is with offensive language etc, which as you clearly know doesn’t have to be directed towards the Referee/AR.
Click to expand...

It was clear VC in my head at the time (I wasn’t the referee) however I wondered having had more time to think it through if it crossed the threshold for excessive force or brutality. I do think it does, on balance.
 
Two yellows dosn't do it for me. Sounds like finding a way of getting out of a straight red.

If the game is well tempered and easy to control then I could go a single yellow if it was only the physical aggression or the (mild offensive) language. But put together and he has to go in any game. Show the red and can decide later how to do the admin. The send off has to be for whichever you detected first. It should matter much as you have to report the other as an additional report.
 
It was a really odd situation as the manager obviously tried to play it down massively as he didn’t want thin to be sent off - but he had just been roughed up by his own goalkeeper.
 
Yeah I think 2 yellows is unnecessarily lenient. At the very least its a red card for OFFINABUS and an extraordinary report, and at that point I'm not sure it makes a difference as to whether you put it down as violent conduct?
 
RefereeX said:
Yeah I think 2 yellows is unnecessarily lenient. At the very least its a red card for OFFINABUS and an extraordinary report, and at that point I'm not sure it makes a difference as to whether you put it down as violent conduct?
Click to expand...
The only difference (to the player) that I can think of is the potential number of games he'd be banned for? Most leagues have a one match ban for a double yellow but up to three or more for SFP/VC/OFFINABUS? Although, by the sounds of it, this guy is gonna be looking for a new team now anyway ... :D
 
Kes said:
The only difference (to the player) that I can think of is the potential number of games he'd be banned for? Most leagues have a one match ban for a double yellow but up to three or more for SFP/VC/OFFINABUS? Although, by the sounds of it, this guy is gonna be looking for a new team now anyway ... :D
Click to expand...
This was what I mean though. I think standard VC is the same ban as OFFINABUS, so if you do OFFINABUS with an extraordinary report, you cover all bases.
 
The problem with OFFINABUS in this particular incident is that there was a mass con happening at the same time following a tackle and therefore a lot of the same language was being bounded around - not necessarily OFF but it could be argued that if one player goes for that language - 4 or 5 others should have as well.
 
Redref34 said:
The problem with OFFINABUS in this particular incident is that there was a mass con happening at the same time following a tackle and therefore a lot of the same language was being bounded around - not necessarily OFF but it could be argued that if one player goes for that language - 4 or 5 others should have as well.
Click to expand...
Sounds like a blow whistle 3 times and go home scenario to me then .... :rolleyes:
 
Red for VC and describe the incident in the report exactly as you have. Don’t mess around with extraordinary reports as it’s all one incident. Let the disciplinary panel do that; especially now there’s a dedicated team who are paid to handle these cases.
 
bester said:
VC is 3 games. OFFINABUS 2 Games
Click to expand...
Ah right, wasn't aware of that, although surely still by reporting as OFFINABUS with an extraordinary report hinting at violence, theres a fair chance he's charged and that ban extended.
 
Tealeaf said:
Red for VC and describe the incident in the report exactly as you have. Don’t mess around with extraordinary reports as it’s all one incident. Let the disciplinary panel do that; especially now there’s a dedicated team who are paid to handle these cases.
Click to expand...
Depends on which county as some still handle their own.
The OP suggests the offender did commit OFFINABUS and possibly also comitted VC. Fair to write everything in to the red card, but I don't think writing an extraordinary report would be wrong.
 
Viridis1886 said:
I thought OFFINABUS was for things directed towards match officials?
Click to expand...
Most commonly, but it doesn't have to be.
Presumably if a player used a racist term against an opponent, as well as following the FA's discrimination protocol you'd dismiss the player? The red card would be for OFFINABUS no?

Admittedly, I'd be a lot more likely to send someone off for calling me a cheating c*nt than calling an opposition player the same thing... but technically....
 
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