The Ref Stop

Leyton Orient vs Stockport

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Big Cat said:
Everything I've written there is a firm brief of mine
Every referee (I'm talking beyond a certain level) falls short of the standard the rest of the football community expects, although naturally, some do so slightly more often than others. Possibly without significant exception, there's not much to separate referees at a level (beyond a certain level). Moreover, there isn't much difference between the referees at different levels (again, beyond a certain level). There really isn't

It's challenging to communicate my opinions without writing an essay and there's some nuance in what I've written. For example, what football expects from referees is significantly wide of the mark, so the fact we fall well short is not just a function of referees' capability

Anyway, I don't want to get overly invested in the subject and there's a good chance we would agree on some aspects if we were in person. I have respect for your posts, but we can't always agree and when we do, it may just be misunderstanding
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Your opinion is just as valid as mine.
 
The Ref Stop
Big Cat said:
I have a notion (cemented this year as I've thought about it more) that beyond a certain level, most referees are much of a muchness (and a minority are not good enough with too few of them facing reclassification). To that end, I don't think there's a referee out there who really comes close to what the game demands. Not a single one. It's probably not possible for anyone to be 'good enough'
Either there's pervasive problem with refereeing culture, the rules, the way they're inconsistently interpreted and taught, or the culture of the game and the default behaviour of castigating the officials, but there's a cavernous gap between expectation of how good refs should be and how good they actually are.

Personally, I think all of the above are true and I think blame is shared throughout the game
Nothing will change because the I have no faith in the governance of rules (Laws FFS) and refereeing, but more of an issue is that the culture will never change because it's all driven by the financial success of the game and the American style circus is selling extremely well, so despite noises to the contrary, no change for the better is ever forthcoming. Behaviour in the elite game is getting evermore ridiculous, but it sells so who cares if it's at the expense of a floundering community of referees
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Amount of training is a big factor. I worked with a guy last night i have know for maybe 8 years since he was 18. He has had year round training throughout, endless endless video reviews, the best coaches/mentors, handpicked matches with other heavily trained young referees etc. and he is now really very good. Five years ago I didn’t think he would be better than me but he’s streaked ahead. Heavy training separates wheat from chaff!
 
I know we can't take what managers say after the game as gospel, but Dave Challinor said he spoke to the officials and they said they saw the flick on but couldn't see who was offside after it it. He was relatively calm at the time, and if what he said was correct that makes the decision all the more strange.
 
Goes to show that of all of this, its the referees fault for not spotting this but the honesty of the players knowing what's happened (the player knew he flicked it on) gets ignored.
Players will stay quiet when it suits them, moan when against them and both times it's the refs fault.
 
RustyRef said:
I know we can't take what managers say after the game as gospel, but Dave Challinor said he spoke to the officials and they said they saw the flick on but couldn't see who was offside after it it. He was relatively calm at the time, and if what he said was correct that makes the decision all the more strange.
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Knowing how managers think, I wonder if he asked the AR "Who played him on?"
 
Ouch. I thought offside initially but some angles more helpful than others. But it is an incorrect decision, and I think LO will be fuming as well as the officials - there’s nothing worse than seeing you’ve made a mistake, after the game!

I am wondering why there isn’t VAR for these playoffs anyway… such huge a financial consequence for mistakes.
 
Wolf_Ref said:
I am wondering why there isn’t VAR for these playoffs anyway… such huge a financial consequence for mistakes.
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Technology and the cost of one off/temporary installation.

It is in operation at Wembley for the PO final.
 
Wolf_Ref said:
Ouch. I thought offside initially but some angles more helpful than others. But it is an incorrect decision, and I think LO will be fuming as well as the officials - there’s nothing worse than seeing you’ve made a mistake, after the game!

I am wondering why there isn’t VAR for these playoffs anyway… such huge a financial consequence for mistakes.
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Absolutely get your point & James has highlighted reason below as well as what is happening at the play-off finals, though would like to think that even with an error by the officials, that over 2 legs, the best team would get through (though not the best way).
 
Viridis1886 said:
I think this shows it was actually a much harder call to make. 2 players moving in 2 directions and a blue defender relatively deep in the line in the middle.
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Had it been a tight offside, I'd completely agree. A tight offside with players crossing over is as hard as it gets. But that's not what happens here.

I completely understand AR missing the flick. But referee should be seeing it.
 
Runner Ref said:
Had it been a tight offside, I'd completely agree. A tight offside with players crossing over is as hard as it gets. But that's not what happens here.

I completely understand AR missing the flick. But referee should be seeing it.
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I absolutely agree. Don't get me wrong, it was a howler, but this angle shows what a challenge this role is.
 
ChasObserverRefDeveloper said:
Knowing how managers think, I wonder if he asked the AR "Who played him on?"
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Unfortunately we will never know, and this one of the down sides of referees not being allowed to explain their decisions.

I do think PGMOL are sending out a strange message with these appointments by putting L1 referees on the first leg but an SG2 team on the second leg. It should be one or the other in my opinion, the second leg is only more important than the first if there's still a game left to play for. Strikes me as a bit like putting your best penalty taker 5th, it might be irrelevant by then. Caveat this by saying I don't think the officials have made any mistakes, but it is giving managers ammunition to have a pop.
 
Obviously mic'd up is only for clips of the elite, but it would be very interesting for them to cover this. Granted they wouldn't have as many angles, but the audio is there, and I we dont really need any other angles foe this
 
Runner Ref said:
Obviously mic'd up is only for clips of the elite, but it would be very interesting for them to cover this. Granted they wouldn't have as many angles, but the audio is there, and I we dont really need any other angles foe this
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They do record and have released Comms at this level in the past. At least, they had Reuben Ricardo on sky discussing clips which also had the audio.
 
JamesL said:
They do record and have released Comms at this level in the past. At least, they had Reuben Ricardo on sky discussing clips which also had the audio.
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They have, but there is zero chance they'll have Ben Speedie on Sky discussing this one.
 
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