It depends on the build up to the part of the game you describe. If an attacker played the ball while his team-mate was in an offside position, and the offside player challenges for the ball or affects the defender's ability to do so or does any of the other things listed in Law 11, the free kick is awarded as the attacker has become active.1.last defen in clear possession of ball, attacker comes from behind him,( goalside so 'offside position') tackles him & goes on to score.
is att onside because defen was last to play the ball, i.e not a pass from att player?
The defenders stood there with their hands up appealing with no one making any attempt to track back and the keeper was nowhere near the ball,
We're making a few assumptions on this play and that is what "social lurker" is referring to.1.last defen in clear possession of ball, attacker comes from behind him,( goalside so 'offside position') tackles him & goes on to score.
is att onside because defen was last to play the ball, i.e not a pass from att player?
This is where I think it gets mushy. The defender deliberately playing the ball clearly removes any further possible OS for interfering with play. Less clear is precisely how the defensive play affects OS for interfering with an opponent by challenging the opponent for the ball (which is the Q in the OP). As best I can tell, the guidance is that immediately challenging the opponent for the ball upon his deliberate play can still be considered sufficient to support an OS offense. But I have not found anything that conclusively addresses this or how long "immediately" should last.b: If attacker in offside position challenged the 2nd last defender for ball prior to 2nd last defender purposefully playing ball, then that would be offside for interfering w/ defending player while in offside position. But once 2nd last defender purposefully plays ball, the offside position is immaterial at that point.
My take is that once the defender plays the ball, it takes out interference with play and player. If the attacker is rushing so close to the defender that the attacker is more or less "immediate" with deliberate play by defender, then he/she is interfering with player. Which is what what I believe you (social lurker) said with "But if the defender just obtained possession of the ball and the player challenging had been in offside position when a teammate touched or played the ball just before the defender obtained the ball, then the immediate challenge would be interfering with an opponent by challenging an opponent for possession of the ball."This is where I think it gets mushy. The defender deliberately playing the ball clearly removes any further possible OS for interfering with play. Less clear is precisely how the defensive play affects OS for interfering with an opponent by challenging the opponent for the ball (which is the Q in the OP). As best I can tell, the guidance is that immediately challenging the opponent for the ball upon his deliberate play can still be considered sufficient to support an OS offense. But I have not found anything that conclusively addresses this or how long "immediately" should last.
My rule of thumb is if the defender is challenged for the second touch, or before the second touch, or ball is played by attacker before the second touch then I call offside. That is given the defender had the opportunity to play a decent fist touch and it was played away from the attacker.
A couple examples: these are is onside
This is offside
First 3 are wrongly given.??? In all 4 examples offside IS given?
I'm not necessarily saying you're wrong, but just for clarity - is that your opinion or is that specifically why the clips have been grouped in that way?First 3 are wrongly given.
- The defender deliberately plays the ball
- The attacker is not challenging him for the ball at the time he plays it
- The attacker does gains the ball from a deliberate play that is not played away from him.
I'm not necessarily saying you're wrong, but just for clarity - is that your opinion or is that specifically why the clips have been grouped in that way?
The videos are not from an official website. That is of course my opinion but also of the poster of the videos.I'm not necessarily saying you're wrong, but just for clarity - is that your opinion or is that specifically why the clips have been grouped in that way?
Thanks - in that case we can get stuck in and debate them!The videos are not from an official website. That is of course my opinion but also of the poster of the videos.
I thought I was going to have a debate on my hand. I don't see anything to disagree with.First one is doubly onside - difficult to be sure but looks on when the ball is kicked to me and as you say no where near defender when defender plays the ball.
2nd one yes I agree - onside
3rd one - You could argue that the movement of the attacker towards the defender/ball is a challnge and/or impacts the defender? but not one to take a strong position on either way.
What I did notice as well - not a peep of disagreement from the attacking sides - for once players' ignorance of the laws helps the officials out here!