A&H

Junior/Youth Abusive manager

S

SLI39

Well-Known Member
My brother was refereeing last weekend. Fairly standard U12 game. Did all the checks beforehand, and both managers seemed fine. Yellows vs. Blues. He kick offs, and ten minutes into the game a yellow attack sees them go clean through, one or one with the goalkeeper. Linesman puts his flag up, but he waves play on because he felt the player was clearly onside. They go on to score and during the celebrations the blue manager storms up the line, screaming at him, "What the bloody hell was that, ref?" My brother calmly explained how he felt the player was clearly onside and thus allowed the goal to stand. He then explained he wanted no more outbursts, otherwise manager would be sent to the nearest car park. The manager calmed down and walked away. Play continues, and about five minutes before half time another yellow attack sees a winger cut inside and a LB defender slides in, taking him out completely when ball was past him. Clear penalty kick, so brother whistles and points to the spot. Upon this, blue players immediately complain, and additionally blue manager once again shouts, "What the bloody hell is that, ref? Is this a joke?"

Blue linesman also pipes up aggressively, "He won the ball, ref." He waves away complaints and before setting up the penalty kick he explains to blue manager that it's his final warning and it was a clear penalty. He storms off rather moodily. Player steps up, but two blue players are clearly in the box before yellow has even kicked the ball. He strikes it wide, but one encroaching also shouts 'boo' as he kicks the ball. He immediately whistles for a retake.

Then it really all kicked off. Blue manager and linesman storm up line once again with former shouting, "Are you a complete mug, what is this s***?"
He confronts him straight away and dismisses him to the car park. However, he refuses to leave and says he's coaching his players till the end, and that my brother should just focus on the 'bloody game'. Brother holds stance and demands manager leave vicinity of pitch. Unbelievably, manager stands still, shaking head, and says: "You're a little cheat." He then walks away. My brother now feels he wants to abandon the game; players just watching all this happen, penalty still not taken. Brother walks to home manager and says he can no longer tolerate away team's behaviour and wants to abandon, especially after being called a cheat. Home manager replies he understands, so brother blows up to terminate match. He wrote a misconduct report; still awaiting confirmation/feedback.

Just to get others' opinions, are these circumstances suitable for abandonment?
 
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The Referee Store
I think your brother felt he was being threatened and could only see one outcome is your brother a member on here
 
No, but I'll encourage him to get an account. He's an U18 referee. Maybe the match could have continued, but I think it was a decision taken with the risk of escalation in mind. It reminds us that being emotionally threatened can be just as serious as physical threats, particularly for younger referees. Hopefully the county is of the same opinion. Thanks for input.
 
Sounds like he's done exactly the right thing.
The manager and CAR have embarrassed themselves and will regret it for a long time.

That the ref was calm enough to speak to the home manager and get through it suggests he might have a future doing this!

However, I don't think being called a cheat is grounds for abandonment. Manager refusing to leave the playing area after being dismissed and using threatening behaviour, however is.

I posted about threatening abandonment recently. I think it has to be an absolute last resort. I don't think it should be treated as a card ready to be played. Personally, I will do my utmost with players/coaches to try to never have to threaten abandonment again.
 
Abandon due to the fact that the coach was refusing to leave.

However if it was based on the grounds of being called a cheat I don't think that's enough to abandon.
 
So he abandoned for being called a cheat?

Because you've that the manager, eventually, walked away......
 
Padfoot said:
So he abandoned for being called a cheat?

Because you've that the manager, eventually, walked away......
Click to expand...

If he felt that he was either emotionally or psychologically unable to carry onot with the game then surely abandonment is the sensible thing to do, although perhaps he could have seen whether there was someone from either team willing to take over.

I don't know the age of the ref in question, but if he's young then it could be very intimidating and upsetting to be angrily confronted by two adults like that.

And yes, before anyone mentions it I'm fully aware that in OA confrontations like this with more people might happen more often, but with age and experience comes confidence to deal with these incidents and cope with the emotional aftermath successfully. Also, with age may also come improved physical stature, which means you're less likely to find players or managers who tower over you as an adult might a young teenager.
 
If you've decided that a manager is going and they refuse then you'll at some point get something along the lines of "I'm not going, it's a public park, you can't make me" in which case reply "No, I can't, but either you go or I will" and that normally does the trick - I've only had it go as far as that once and it worked. You have to be confident to mean it and stick with it if they refuse because otherwise it's bye bye any ounce of credibility and the game would become a farce.

Just the encroachment and the penalty going wide I would not be looking at a retake unless the defender has literally gone passed the ball before it's kicked. Shouting "boo" well did you hear it? I mean did you really hear it in the thick of the game? Sometimes there's no need to go looking for stuff. If the entire ground heard it, the aggrieved players are all looking at you and expecting you to take action then yeah, blow up caution the offender (not only because you have to in law but to help sell the decision) and have the kick retaken but otherwise just get on with what everyone's expecting: a goal kick. In its most basic form, the referee is there to sort out disagreements of what course of action should be taken during the game so if they're happy to get on with it then don't give surprises.

You've said he "waved away complaints" how was the manner that he did this? Was he refusing to talk to people and explain his decision, was he acting the big "I am"? Sometimes the attitude of the referee can inflame a situation (I'm not for one moment suggesting that's how he was, just offering a view point of how some referees can be after giving a contentious decision). I'm not advocating going over to the manager to explain your decision but just a shout over "Manager I'll explain it at half time if you want" so then if he is still going on you've then got a reason to go over and take action and he can't use the defence of he just wanted to get your attention to ask what was happening; your shout over proves you've heard him and that you'll respond to him appropriately when the time is right.

When the manager walked away after calling the referee a cheat did he walk to the vicinity of the car park where he had been asked to go or did he go back to his team's parents/subs/bags etc (dug out for want of a better word even though it's park football lol)? If he had gone to the car park then I would not be abandoning based on the contents of your post - I'd note down sufficient details to submit a misconduct report and I would also take the flag from the assistant referee and request a replacement
 
He was absolutely spot on to abandon.

I think people are perhaps missing the point here; the 'cheat' statement appears to have been the final straw, rather than a standalone reason for abandonment. He has used the stepped approach to a tee here. As soon as the manager refused to leave, it was game over (I abandoned my game last weekend for very similar reasons).
 
DB714 said:
Just the encroachment and the penalty going wide I would not be looking at a retake unless the defender has literally gone passed the ball before it's kicked. Shouting "boo" well did you hear it? I mean did you really hear it in the thick of the game? Sometimes there's no need to go looking for stuff. If the entire ground heard it, the aggrieved players are all looking at you and expecting you to take action then yeah, blow up caution the offender (not only because you have to in law but to help sell the decision) and have the kick retaken but otherwise just get on with what everyone's expecting: a goal kick. In its most basic form, the referee is there to sort out disagreements of what course of action should be taken during the game so if they're happy to get on with it then don't give surprises.
Click to expand...

This makes me very uncomfortable.

Last weeks ref is fit and well I see :rolleyes:
 
why did he feel that he needed to abandon? Was he too upset at the abuse? Being called a cheat is not grounds for abandonment. If he felt that he was unable to continue the match then fair enough - so what can we do to help him develop techniques to be able to keep functioning when there is abuse?

and I'm with Herts on the PK - DB714 is giving some ordinary advice here. Even without saying 'boo', the encroachment is reason for a retake. DB's approach is why it's so very, very difficult to actually order a retake on a PK no matter how blatant the offence.
 
Padfoot said:
So he abandoned for being called a cheat?

Because you've that the manager, eventually, walked away......
Click to expand...
He's said that the manager walked away but we don't know exactly what that means. Did he walk away from the conversation but remain on the touchline/in the vicinity of the pitch or did he walk away, leave the vicinity of the pitch and go to the car park? I agree with DB714 here - if the former, abandon due to the manager's continued refusal to leave but if the latter, abandonment does not seem entirely necessary.
 
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If a manager doesn't leave, he doesn't give the referee many options... Also, I hope the kid that yelled boo got a caution?? :)
 
OP's brother is an U18 referee. Therefore child protection concerns should kick in. All of us ageing monsters are not likely to abandon for this, but U18's should have every right to abandon under these circumstances. Perhaps we might weed out some of the nightmare managers and coaches, and retain more younger referees.
 
Has the forum gone completely mad?

This is an U18 referee who has been abused to the extent that he no longer felt that he could continue. He dismissed the manager, who it appears refused to leave, so IMO had no choice but to abandon. A little clarification would be useful here @SLI39.

I started at 14, and as a young ref it can be really difficult to deal with this kind of abuse and I will never criticise a CHILD who abandons in this situation.
 
I think what we all need to remember is ... this is an U12 game ... with an U18 referee. when I were a lad and started refereeing and the pups age of 14, my dad used to come with me - a 6ft 7, 28stone bulking man - so nobody really went 'that step too far' unfortunately though not everyone is as lucky as I was ... if he felt threatened then abandon, nobody should ever be made to feel threatened in ANY situation, especially not on a football field, and even more especially at this age group!

just out of curiosity here, and I really don't mean to be rude but ... you're his older brother? and was there? did you not feel the need to step in maybe? I know ill get caned for this as you shouldn't get involved ... but even now when I go to watch my mates play football and someone starts abusing the ref I always throw in the 'oi mate, pack it in' or 'fella, ive got a copy of the LOTG in my boot ... fancy a read at half time?' I couldn't have helped my self by telling him to put up or shut up

just my thoughts though
 
As a young ref who had trouble with a coach two weeks ago, I know what he is going through! For me sometimes the complete lack of respect is what is hardest, not what he is saying. I'm sure we have all experienced coaches like this, we all know how hard it can be without the prior experience of it!
 
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