A&H

Yet another one of "those games"!

Matthew

RefChat Addict
Feels like a case of deja vu, but I had another game yesterday that has left me feeling completely disillusioned. This may turn into a rant, so please accept my apologies in advance! :D

U15 mid-table clash on a carpet of a pitch, so should've been an enjoyable game. However, it ended with two reds (both for two yellows) and two cautions, all for the away side.

Both reds came from the same incident towards the end of the second half. Away striker, who was already on a caution for dissent, came in late on a defender as he cleared the ball and took him out, before screaming in his face to "get up you f*****g cheat". As if that wasn't bad enough, he then decided to tell me I was a joke.....second yellow, off you go. He flat out refused to leave the FOP, swearing at me repeatedly; he started to walk away before coming back at least four times. The second red came courtesy of another player who had been cautioned for dissent earlier, who had to have his say on the red card. Again, he refused to leave the pitch, instead opting to stay to dish out abuse. Should this be reported as part of the RC report, or should there be a separate misconduct report?

It came as no surprise that the coach, who was already on a final warning because of his constant complaining, did nothing to get his players off. I'm not sure what he'd said to the home coach, but he insisted on walking me back to my car after the game because he didn't want any of the away side getting near me.

At what point did this become an acceptable part of the game? I'm sick of being spoken to like I'm a piece of dirt by kids who are aided and abetted by so called "adults" who should know better. I've had enough of having my Saturday ruined by kids, what's the point? I got into refereeing to stay involved in the game, but where's the enjoyment in turning up to ref teams who've already decided they hate me before I turn up, just because I'm the referee?

I don't feel like my tolerance has lowered, I've always had very little when it comes to dissent/OFFINABUS but the last two seasons have been appalling. I'm at the end of my tether with it all. :(
 
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I feel your pain... This was the exact reason why I ditched the junior league!
Mind you at OA its not much different....
 
What did you give the second yellow to the first offender for? The late tackle or the comments?
 
Away striker, who was already on a caution for dissent, came in late on a defender as he cleared the ball and took him out, before screaming in his face to "get up you f*****g cheat".
If I might make a suggestion for future consideration, I'd say that could be enough for a straight red all by itself.

As if that wasn't bad enough, he then decided to tell me I was a joke.....second yellow, off you go. He flat out refused to leave the FOP, swearing at me repeatedly; he started to walk away before coming back at least four times. The second red came courtesy of another player who had been cautioned for dissent earlier, who had to have his say on the red card. Again, he refused to leave the pitch, instead opting to stay to dish out abuse. Should this be reported as part of the RC report, or should there be a separate misconduct report?
Submit separate misconduct reports for each of them. Make sure you include all of it - the players refusing to leave the FoP, all the abusive comments made by the players (and make sure you quote everything you possibly can!), the lot.
 
To the manager (or captain in OA): "Sir, if this player has not left the field in 60 seconds this match will be abandoned!!"
Never failed to work.
Although you MUST follow through with abandonment if it doesn't!
 
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Feels like a case of deja vu, but I had another game yesterday that has left me feeling completely disillusioned. This may turn into a rant, so please accept my apologies in advance! :D

U15 mid-table clash on a carpet of a pitch, so should've been an enjoyable game. However, it ended with two reds (both for two yellows) and two cautions, all for the away side.

Both reds came from the same incident towards the end of the second half. Away striker, who was already on a caution for dissent, came in late on a defender as he cleared the ball and took him out, before screaming in his face to "get up you f*****g cheat". As if that wasn't bad enough, he then decided to tell me I was a joke.....second yellow, off you go. He flat out refused to leave the FOP, swearing at me repeatedly; he started to walk away before coming back at least four times. The second red came courtesy of another player who had been cautioned for dissent earlier, who had to have his say on the red card. Again, he refused to leave the pitch, instead opting to stay to dish out abuse. Should this be reported as part of the RC report, or should there be a separate misconduct report?

It came as no surprise that the coach, who was already on a final warning because of his constant complaining, did nothing to get his players off. I'm not sure what he'd said to the home coach, but he insisted on walking me back to my car after the game because he didn't want any of the away side getting near me.

At what point did this become an acceptable part of the game? I'm sick of being spoken to like I'm a piece of dirt by kids who are aided and abetted by so called "adults" who should know better. I've had enough of having my Saturday ruined by kids, what's the point? I got into refereeing to stay involved in the game, but where's the enjoyment in turning up to ref teams who've already decided they hate me before I turn up, just because I'm the referee?

I don't feel like my tolerance has lowered, I've always had very little when it comes to dissent/OFFINABUS but the last two seasons have been appalling. I'm at the end of my tether with it all. :(

I had something similar Saturday. Cup quarter final, tight game 2-2 when I give a penalty to home team for an obvious shirt pull as striker races towards goal with ball at his feet and a player to beat before scoring.

Away captain who had already been cautioned shouts to bench 'I'm coming off, I can't be on the same pitch as this joke referee' and walks towards sidelines. I call him back before substitution complete to show him his second yellow and red card. He moves to the carpark behind FOP to stand by his car and shout abuse at me until the final whistle.

Manager is as bad with his sly digs about how 'it was never a penalty' (quickly followed by asking his other players if it was) etc. No handshakes from manager at the end but plenty from his players. Told vice captain to tell manager to expect misconduct report for sent off players abuse.

12 months ago this would have bothered me, thinking perhaps I could have prevented it escalating etc etc. Now I'm very much of the opinion these types of people have real issues with the ability to control themselves and that at the end of the day, the remaining 50+ people can see that, as many commented afterwards.

If you made the correct decisions (which it sounds like you did) there isn't much more you can do to prevent behaviour like this.

Some people are just born idiots and live up to it very well. Deal with them and move onto the next, not worth the negative energy.
 
This is why I don'y do kids games. I feel your pain. Most of thier mum and dads might not be there, they are with there mates and try to act big and hard and show off.

I was down for games for sunday games the weekend just gone and next weekend, I spoke to my CFA 1 week before my next game to take me off as my sister is due to give birth. On sunday morning I was with the girlfriend and I get a phone call "where the f*%K are you, and when the hell are you getting here to referee our game? I explained to him my situation with my sister and even then got more abbuse over the phone. I can't stand how anyone can think they can get away with this. It's shocking and unaceptable.
 
Both reds came from the same incident towards the end of the second half. Away striker, who was already on a caution for dissent, came in late on a defender as he cleared the ball and took him out, before screaming in his face to "get up you f*****g cheat". As if that wasn't bad enough, he then decided to tell me I was a joke.....second yellow, off you go. He flat out refused to leave the FOP, swearing at me repeatedly; he started to walk away before coming back at least four times. The second red came courtesy of another player who had been cautioned for dissent earlier, who had to have his say on the red card. Again, he refused to leave the pitch, instead opting to stay to dish out abuse. Should this be reported as part of the RC report, or should there be a separate misconduct report?

My reading is that you have separate mis-conduct reports. I actually think there are two separate mis-conduct reports for the first player.
1. The initial refusal to leave the FOP; and
2. a second for the continued OFFINABUS.

The second of these will simply be an extra sending off penalty, but this number of reports may require the club to attend a hearing to explain its general attitude. CFA will love you, maybe 5 fines arising.

Hope you are OK about this. There are numerous kn*bs at U15. They have not been controlled before, never told off my their loving parents(!!) what are they going to be like when they get into the workplace....
Oh, sorry, they won't be - they will be on income support as you hurt their feelings in this match :D
 
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What did you give the second yellow to the first offender for? The late tackle or the comments?

Take your pick. The tackle was a poor one, so could possibly have warranted a caution, but the comments made my mind up. On reflection though, as @Alex Rush-Fear suggests, what he did should perhaps have been a straight red.

This is why I don'y do kids games. I feel your pain. Most of thier mum and dads might not be there, they are with there mates and try to act big and hard and show off.

I was down for games for sunday games the weekend just gone and next weekend, I spoke to my CFA 1 week before my next game to take me off as my sister is due to give birth. On sunday morning I was with the girlfriend and I get a phone call "where the f*%K are you, and when the hell are you getting here to referee our game? I explained to him my situation with my sister and even then got more abbuse over the phone. I can't stand how anyone can think they can get away with this. It's shocking and unaceptable.

That's unbelievable! How dare a referee have any life outside of football!? :eek:

My reading is that you have separate mis-conduct reports. I actually think there are two separate mis-conduct reports for the first player.
1. The initial refusal to leave the FOP; and
2. a second for the continued OFFINABUS.

The second of these will simply be an extra sending off penalty, but this number of reports may require the club to attend a hearing to explain its general attitude. CFA will love you, maybe 5 fines arising.

Hope you are OK about this. There are numerous kn*bs at U15. They have not been controlled before, never told off my their loving parents(!!) what are they going to be like when they get into the workplace....
Oh, sorry, they won't be - they will be on income support as you hurt their feelings in this match :D

So that would be the two S/O reports, an additional two for player one and an additional one for player two?

OK would be an overstatement, purely because it ruined my day Saturday, but I'm slowly coming to terms with the fact that I shouldn't hold others to the same standard of behaviour I expect from myself!

Of course, forget what they said to me, they'll be scarred for life by my abhorrent showing of a card! :drink:
 
Hi Matthew
I referree junior age groups from u13's upwards & have to say that u15's tend to be the worst for dissent. I'm very lenient, prefering to get them to understand but sometimes the only thing that will teach them is a fine. By u18's many of these types have left the game, learnt from their mistakes or have simply accept that footy is going to be costly for them!!
I had a very similar incident on Sunday with cards and sending people away from touchline with threats to abandon. I too was thinking, do I need this. That was until the offending club Chairman rang me to apologise and tell me that the kid and parents are basically reoffending scratters who noone likes and he is now kicking them out of the club. It made me realise that what I did was correct and that I had the support of everyone at the ground.
 
I would have given the first one a straight red, irrespective of whether he was already on a yellow.

If a player refuses to leave the pitch, then it is easy. Inform both captains you are abandoning the game unless the dismissed player leaves the pitch. And as was mentioned, make sure you follow up this threat. County FA's and leagues will always support you on abandonments in such circumstances.
 
So that would be the two S/O reports, an additional two for player one and an additional one for player two?

That's the method of getting the correct actions by your CFA. Normally, the club sec is not at the junior matches so if he gets 5 reports from one match, they may take internal action to deal with the offenders.

We will not change the attitudes by staying quiet. See the topic on today's Telegraph sports article http://www.refchat.co.uk/threads/very-interesting-article.7388
 
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