The Ref Stop

Women's pathway or Level 4?

A

alexv

RefChat Addict
Level 5 Referee
I achieved my L5 this season, but haven't particularly enjoyed the year. The games have pretty much been the same as I was getting as L7 because there are so many 5s here. I've never thought about it before, but would it be worth looking at the women's pathway to get to a higher level, which has always been my goal?

I'm 23 and was in CORE for a while but was dropped at the end of last season. I've always been a decent referee and been highly thought of, but confidence has definitely dropped a bit this season. I do feel a bit like my 'reputation' isn't what it was a couple of seasons ago. I'm now not as confident as going for 4, but feel like the women's pathway would be a lot more manageable.

The only thing is that I've only ever middled 1 women's game (a few years ago) and it was the easiest experience of my life. It didn't really need a referee at all - it was played in the best spirit I've ever seen, but I was quite bored, simply because I didn't have to make any decisions.

The level I do now is okay. I'll try and explain it. It's the divisions below Step 6 (going from Div 5 - 1 - Prem. Step 6 is promotion from the Prem Division). I'm currently doing Divs 5-3, which isn't a great standard, although 3 is noticeably better than 5. I'm yet to do a game at Div 2 and above, so I think I would probably struggle doing 5-4 without experience of the higher divisions. In this county, Level 5s can do the Prem, but because there are so many, it's difficult to get these fixtures. I don't want to be completely out of my depth by going from mostly Div 5/4 games straight to the Prem. I regularly do Premier League academies to U16 (I've been lucky enough to line an U18s too). I find these games challenging but very enjoyable, and find it suits my style a lot too. However, the bulk of my games are adults Saturdays.

I've always been ambitious when refereeing, but my confidence has taken a hit. I think realistically, I probably won't make it to 3. As well as this, one of the best referees I knew got to 3, hated it, and ending up packing it in completely, which did put me off. I'm now thinking that the women's route may be best to get to a good level. I plan to speak to my RDO, but wondered if anyone had any advice, or perhaps have gone through something similar?
 
The Ref Stop
I've whistled a few womens second tier here and flagged a couple of womens prem friendlies. Usually it's all ladies officiating the top tier but I happened to look at the fixtures - 3 of my mates that I have been working with earlier this year have spots on the line in good womens prem fixtures. They are all half my age and have the chance to go far higher than me in their careers, so I understand it, and good luck to them. Great matches to do.

Here there's a big drop off after the top two womens tiers - and the top tier goals (though a nice occasion) is also very slow. Outside those top tiers it's about not making clangers, not interfering unecessarily, and the hardest part, handling the coaches!
 
alexv said:
How come 4 over the women’s pathway in terms of reaching a higher level?
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As someone doing the women’s pathway with no expectation of going beyond 3W:

There’s a priority for female officials so whilst the path looks shorter, the barriers are higher if anything for male officials (not saying that’s bad at all).

There’s no professionalism so if your aim is the top, or near to it, then you’re getting fees equivalent to the NL or L2 for the very top level. Plus less teams in these divisions means less games to go around anyway.

Caveat:

People have said in this thread that L4s and above will do women’s games at the equivalent level. This is not going to be forever, the plan long term is to separate the two pathways for the most part, with lateral movement only really for top officials. Currently the women’s game is a bit reliant on male pathway officials to fill the gaps, those gaps are quickly being filled.


EDIT:

Not sure what your fellow official hated about level 3 but I imagine that also exists on the women’s pathway at 2W or elsewhere
 
alexv said:
How come 4 over the women’s pathway in terms of reaching a higher level?
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@OnlyUseMeWhistle makes the point i would...

you wont get that far on the womens pathway because they look to prioritise women. i know 3 very capable L4s who tried to go forward that was and only one was accepted (all 3 passed all the tests).
 
Thanks everyone, really interesting to hear. Especially how only 1 out of 3 L4s got promoted
 
I'm L5 and choosing to go for 3W rather than 4. Not had any issues getting middles in women's leagues yet but we'll see what happens once I reach the promotion criteria threshold. I can already see that others will take priority and that's fine by me. I'm doing it because knee surgery (replacement) a few years ago is catching up with me and I do find the games a little bit easier in terms of pace (even the U23 academy games etc) though appreciate there will come a point where I won't be mobile enough. All the rest of the comparisons on attitude/coaches/quality I don't tend to worry about, I get good teams/players and awful ones, whatever league I'm on.

Would love to have gone for 4, and might still try but there are lots around in our area and seeing a lot of 4's being put on 'lower step' men's games purely so they can get a middle. This means the 'premium' games (at the appropriate step) that would normally have a 5 in the middle are getting less and less available which pushes good 5's into the lower divisions and tends to hinder development a bit. At that point, I'd rather ref a good quality women's game than a men's Div 3! :) Still running the line on games with 4's in the middle and it's great to learn from them. Just being involved in the game is probably good enough for me, wish I'd started years earlier.
 
One of my other concerns with the women's pathway is the games are on Sundays here. Is that common across the country?

I've started playing again on Sundays and have really enjoyed it. I wouldn't want to give it up again yet.
 
alexv said:
One of my other concerns with the women's pathway is the games are on Sundays here. Is that common across the country?

I've started playing again on Sundays and have really enjoyed it. I wouldn't want to give it up again yet.
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Yeah but usually at 2 PM so could play and then ref?
 
alexv said:
One of my other concerns with the women's pathway is the games are on Sundays here. Is that common across the country?

I've started playing again on Sundays and have really enjoyed it. I wouldn't want to give it up again yet.
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Sunday's in the south-west too.
 
alexv said:
I have thought that. Although I’m a 5’7 striker who gets flattened every game 😂 Would just have to make sure I’m not covered in mud before refereeing. It could work though
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Depends on what level you want to referee at. If you have aspirations to officiate at higher levels like the Womens National League it would be nigh on impossible to play first. There just wouldn't be time to get to the ground the absolutely minimum 1 hour before, especially not if there is any kind of travel involved, plus the FA would go absolutely bananas if you got injured playing and left one of their matches short of an official.
 
alexv said:
One of my other concerns with the women's pathway is the games are on Sundays here. Is that common across the country?

I've started playing again on Sundays and have really enjoyed it. I wouldn't want to give it up again yet.
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I think that’s pretty standard for adults womens games. Although I know my local (albeit youth) league has girls on Saturday and boys on Sunday.
 
RustyRef said:
Depends on what level you want to referee at. If you have aspirations to officiate at higher levels like the Womens National League it would be nigh on impossible to play first. There just wouldn't be time to get to the ground the absolutely minimum 1 hour before, especially not if there is any kind of travel involved, plus the FA would go absolutely bananas if you got injured playing and left one of their matches short of an official.
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Oh yeah, 100% if it got to a serious level then I would stop playing. But for now, I’m probably enjoying playing more than some games I referee. I think it’s because its a similar level, I get more enjoyment playing.

If I ever got to a level where it starts getting semi-pro, I would prioritise officiating

EDIT: at the moment, I’m playing while I still can. I know if I ever got to a decent level, I’d have to pack it in, so I’m just enjoying playing for as long as possible
 
alexv said:
Oh yeah, 100% if it got to a serious level then I would stop playing. But for now, I’m probably enjoying playing more than some games I referee. I think it’s because its a similar level, I get more enjoyment playing.

If I ever got to a level where it starts getting semi-pro, I would prioritise officiating

EDIT: at the moment, I’m playing while I still can. I know if I ever got to a decent level, I’d have to pack it in, so I’m just enjoying playing for as long as possible
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But if you go on the women's pathway you are going to get games as an AR on the WNL, and they will be 2pm Sunday kick offs. I'm pretty sure it is part of the promotion criteria that you have to do a set number of WNL games as an AR.
 
RustyRef said:
But if you go on the women's pathway you are going to get games as an AR on the WNL, and they will be 2pm Sunday kick offs. I'm pretty sure it is part of the promotion criteria that you have to do a set number of WNL games as an AR.
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And that’s where I would have to prioritise officiating. I assume these wouldn’t be every week?
 
alexv said:
And that’s where I would have to prioritise officiating. I assume these wouldn’t be every week?
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You probably need a discussion with your RDO to work out what is best for you. Pretty sure you have to referee at least 10 women's games to meet the 4W to 3W criteria, and I also think your 3 match day reports have to be on women's games. So if you aren't regularly refereeing women's football you'll never get promoted, and almost all of those games are going to be Sunday afternoons.

It does feel to me that if Sunday afternoons are a problem for you, and realistically at 23 you potentially have another decade of playing ahead of you, the male pathway would be better for you.
 
RustyRef said:
You probably need a discussion with your RDO to work out what is best for you. Pretty sure you have to referee at least 10 women's games to meet the 4W to 3W criteria, and I also think your 3 match day reports have to be on women's games. So if you aren't regularly refereeing women's football you'll never get promoted, and almost all of those games are going to be Sunday afternoons.

It does feel to me that if Sunday afternoons are a problem for you, and realistically at 23 you potentially have another decade of playing ahead of you, the male pathway would be better for you.
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Yeah, I text my RDO the other night, so expect to talk about it with him at some point in the week
 
RustyRef said:
But if you go on the women's pathway you are going to get games as an AR on the WNL, and they will be 2pm Sunday kick offs. I'm pretty sure it is part of the promotion criteria that you have to do a set number of WNL games as an AR.
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It’s no longer criteria to do WNL AR for 4w to 3w, just need 3 AR games.
 
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