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WMRL appointment

RustyRef said:
Yep, unprecedented times will probably lead to unprecedented opportunities for some referees. It isn't just fitness test related, rather I think what has almost certainly happened as well is some referees at L4 and above will have realised through lockdown how much time they get back with family and friends if they aren't out refereeing all the time, and some won't come back for that reason. I had that not through lockdown but rather when I was out injured long term after surgery, I realised I wasn't missing it anywhere near as much as I should have been so quit L3.
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Fair point. Have to admit, I was apprehensive about returning having just had a baby but absolutely loving being back and it's working fine for us as a family
 
The Ref Stop
I'm finding two grandchildren pretty taxing - or at least weekends are filling up with more non football related activities! :p

PS I am a very young grandfather, before anyone asks!.............................;)
 
RustyRef said:
Yes, agree, I suspect the FA will have to bring forward the as yet unannounced date for interim 5 to 4 promotions.
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How do you bring forward a date that has not yet been set ? :) :rolleyes:

However, yes, I agree with you. And I have half a dozen good 5 to 4 candidates in my county who are, unsurprisingly, firmly in favour!
 
Russell Jones said:
How do you bring forward a date that has not yet been set ? :) :rolleyes:

However, yes, I agree with you. And I have half a dozen good 5 to 4 candidates in my county who are, unsurprisingly, firmly in favour!
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I think the FA have a good idea of when they will do it.
They will want to do it in one tranche.
So my guess is it will be based on December merit tables.
This means they know how many 4s they need to move up to 3. And how many 5s they then need to move up to 4.
If I was a 5-4 candidate I would be busting my balls to have met the criteria by then.
The main issue I see is having to complete mid season fitness tests and cobtrib meetings, realistically looking at end of Jan/early Feb at the earliest before games at new level.
 
@JamesL - I have my doubts that mid season promotions will exist. I know what the FA have said, but I doubt they will promote many 5-4 or 4-3.

I think that they may ask the likely referee to "act up" for a couple of games, as a trial. This way they don't have the issue with fitness tests and meeting attendance.
 
lincs22 said:
@JamesL - I have my doubts that mid season promotions will exist. I know what the FA have said, but I doubt they will promote many 5-4 or 4-3.

I think that they may ask the likely referee to "act up" for a couple of games, as a trial. This way they don't have the issue with fitness tests and meeting attendance.
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That may end up being the case.
I know that is the case here as we are desparately short on numbers down here. Last I heard only around 60% L4s had taken and passed fitness test. Currently relying on 5-4 candidates to cover games etc.
I think it all depends on how many refs are needed. If a 4 steps up for a step 3/4 game they would be assisted by L4s, something the FA do not like (and for good reason).
There is too much at stake on these games to allow anything to interfere with the matchday team so a hand may be forced.
They may do the L3 meeting virtually, and they may reduce the number of testing centres as demand will not be as high.
They may not end up needing 3s, because they have enough through the test.
One thing for sure is they need 4s for lines and middles and there will be plenty will have met criteria by then
 
lincs22 said:
@JamesL - I have my doubts that mid season promotions will exist. I know what the FA have said, but I doubt they will promote many 5-4 or 4-3.

I think that they may ask the likely referee to "act up" for a couple of games, as a trial. This way they don't have the issue with fitness tests and meeting attendance.
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We've got 5-4's and 4's that have not successfully completed the fitness test covering games with us due to shortage.
 
Yampy said:
Am I the only one that thinks the latter option is more disappointing than the former?
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yeah i agree, some games are perfect for 5-4s

4s who havent passed the test arent allowed to ref (in our pool).

one of my mates was given a few games this month by accident, the appinting officer ended up watching and finding out he hadnt done the test yet and he's since been removed from the remaining games. someone at the FA pressed the wrong button on moas :wall:
 
Some supply leagues are in such a mess I believe the FA have given dispensation for L4s that haven't passed the fitness test to be appointed. One league had less than 50% of their games covered by L4s last weekend.

I don't see how they wait until December for interim 5 to 4 promotions, the situation is critical at the moment and isn't going to get better by itself. I predicted this might happen, it isn't just fitness test related but rather a lot of referees that were in the system appeared to have decided not to come back after lockdown. There could be any number of reason for this, including ...

- lost fitness over lockdown and can't pass the test - there a lot of referees that do minimal fitness training even at L4 and above and use the act of refereeing to keep their fitness levels up. Take that away for a year and easy to see why they will struggle. Even if they do normally train, the closure of gyms for months on end could have the same effect.

- apprehension about returning whilst infection rates are high, not wanting to catch it and pass onto family. Realistically infection rates will remain high for at least the majority of this season so that isn't going away.

- realised they haven't missed it as much as they should have during the enforced absence, which sets alarm bells ringing.

- started working Saturdays during lockdown and realised how much more money they can earn. That was one thing I found when I was injured, when refereeing I'd had to rely on my colleagues to cover out of hours work, but when I did it I'd earn four times more than refereeing, and still spend less time away from the house. Plus I didn't feel as guilty about relying on my work colleagues so much.

There's probably a lot more reasons as well, but the bottom line is this shortage won't just end itself.
 
RustyRef said:
Some supply leagues are in such a mess I believe the FA have given dispensation for L4s that haven't passed the fitness test to be appointed. One league had less than 50% of their games covered by L4s last weekend.

I don't see how they wait until December for interim 5 to 4 promotions, the situation is critical at the moment and isn't going to get better by itself. I predicted this might happen, it isn't just fitness test related but rather a lot of referees that were in the system appeared to have decided not to come back after lockdown. There could be any number of reason for this, including ...

- lost fitness over lockdown and can't pass the test - there a lot of referees that do minimal fitness training even at L4 and above and use the act of refereeing to keep their fitness levels up. Take that away for a year and easy to see why they will struggle. Even if they do normally train, the closure of gyms for months on end could have the same effect.

- apprehension about returning whilst infection rates are high, not wanting to catch it and pass onto family. Realistically infection rates will remain high for at least the majority of this season so that isn't going away.

- realised they haven't missed it as much as they should have during the enforced absence, which sets alarm bells ringing.

- started working Saturdays during lockdown and realised how much more money they can earn. That was one thing I found when I was injured, when refereeing I'd had to rely on my colleagues to cover out of hours work, but when I did it I'd earn four times more than refereeing, and still spend less time away from the house. Plus I didn't feel as guilty about relying on my work colleagues so much.

There's probably a lot more reasons as well, but the bottom line is this shortage won't just end itself.
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It's all a bit of a mess (not on the FA part I mean logistically).
I totally agree with you, but doing it too early could see pools over subscribed.
Thet really can't do anything until all opportunities to pass the fitness test are exhausted.
They need to know how many 3s failed the test to see how many 4s they need to/have to promote. They also need to work out how many 4s the need to reclassify or speak to those that have yet to return to understand why to then work out the requirement for level 4 promotions.

I do not envy whose job it is either way. Get it wrong and could have referees with more free weekends than eve whilst there is a pool of budding keen 5-4 candidates that have passed the test I see no reason as to why L they need to rush the process before December.
 
JamesL said:
It's all a bit of a mess (not on the FA part I mean logistically).
I totally agree with you, but doing it too early could see pools over subscribed.
Thet really can't do anything until all opportunities to pass the fitness test are exhausted.
They need to know how many 3s failed the test to see how many 4s they need to/have to promote. They also need to work out how many 4s the need to reclassify or speak to those that have yet to return to understand why to then work out the requirement for level 4 promotions.

I do not envy whose job it is either way. Get it wrong and could have referees with more free weekends than eve whilst there is a pool of budding keen 5-4 candidates that have passed the test I see no reason as to why L they need to rush the process before December.
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I agree with James. They have to first get to clarity on their existing 3's and 4's otherwise they risk jumping out of the frying pan and into the fire! As an example, on my nearby Supply League, there are currently 20% of the allocated pool of L4's who have yet to pass their fitness test. If they all pass in September then the situation will change dramatically, especially with less holidays to contend with as well.

That said, I'm increasingly expecting more rather than less mid season reclassifications. However I'd be surprised if it happened before October at the very earliest. Until that point, using high quality 5 to 4 candidates, proven on other divisions of the same leagues and with a passed fitness test under their (hopefully slim!) belts would seem to be the best stopgap option.
 
JamesL said:
It's all a bit of a mess (not on the FA part I mean logistically).
I totally agree with you, but doing it too early could see pools over subscribed.
Thet really can't do anything until all opportunities to pass the fitness test are exhausted.
They need to know how many 3s failed the test to see how many 4s they need to/have to promote. They also need to work out how many 4s the need to reclassify or speak to those that have yet to return to understand why to then work out the requirement for level 4 promotions.

I do not envy whose job it is either way. Get it wrong and could have referees with more free weekends than eve whilst there is a pool of budding keen 5-4 candidates that have passed the test I see no reason as to why L they need to rush the process before December.
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August is always a nightmare with holidays. Our supply league is terribly short this month, be very interesting to see what the coverage for September fixtures looks like out of the gate when they get published.
 
All you'd be doing to fix the lack of L4's is promoting more L5's to cover... And given it's those same potentially promoted L5's who are doing those matches anyway, I don't really see this as a "crisis" as such. The same referees will be doing those matches, regardless of if they're 5-4 candidates or early-promoted L4's?
 
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