The Ref Stop

Why do we do it?

Cheshire Ref said:
Back to the original post @RegalRef there will not be referee in the country or world that has not had a game like this, where you come home throw your bag under the stairs and tell your missus how much you hated it and question yourself as to why you bother. However, from what you explained you believe your decisions were right so therefore they were right, they can argue and abuse as much as they want but you seem to have come away from the game believing that you got the majority of you calls correct so keep your head held high. The only thing I may have done (and you may have done it anyway) was if the captain was ok then maybe pull him to one side and ask him to help you calm his players rather than me getting card happy etc etc. Otherwise we have ALL been there, it frustrates the hell out of me as I often think do you know what no where else in the land would you speak to me the way you are doing but just because were on a patch of grass then you think you can, I bite my tongue and crack on and discipline where necessary.

Keep up the good work mate, games like this will happen again during your career that is for certain and remember its always the losing team that think your c***p because they would never lose a game if they had a decent ref, its ALWAYS our fault!!
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Cheers @Cheshire Ref .

Last couple of games have been like this. Even to the point where players attempt to get into debate about the most obvious, meaningless decisions.

An example was yesterday, blue corner.Ball comes in, headed away by red centre half to edge of the box.Blue player on edge of the box goes up for header, all over red player, falls over top nearly lands on head.

Give what seemed like an obvious and simple free kick to red for climbing and blue is dismayed. Not livid or dissenting but highly surprised and questioning me.

This was the tone for the game, even an innocuous decision that meant nothing and was relatively simple was questioned, albeit not in a dissenting way.

I tried all sorts during the game to deal with it, talking to them, explaining decisions, ignoring them, taking up my next position and telling them to shut up and get on with it.

Anybody got any tips?
 
The Ref Stop
I don't think you have done a lot wrong @RegalRef I am guessing they are like that with every ref they ever get that is unless there winning of course which is when the dissent will probably lessen. The more dissent I get the less likely I am to get into a conversation full stop, the other way is just to start dishing the cards out. I hate doing it but sometimes needs must. The best advice I was ever given was by Andy Garrett (premier league assistant) and it seems so simple but just park it and move on. Yes analyse your performance, decide where you could improve but when its done park it and move on, the next 90 minutes are a fresh start.

There is one particular team that I had a similar nightmare with than you have described and low and behold I have them again in a few weeks and im being assessed!! Cant wait :confused:

@SM are players playing for Cocaine now in Wales.......What is the world coming too!! :eek::D
 
RegalRef said:
Cheers @Cheshire Ref .

Last couple of games have been like this. Even to the point where players attempt to get into debate about the most obvious, meaningless decisions.

Anybody got any tips?
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Louder more dominant whistle. Sounds obvious when you say it but it reflects your authority. Then move away to your new position quickly so you are not there to hear or listen to complaints.
 
RegalRef said:
Cheers @Cheshire Ref .

Last couple of games have been like this. Even to the point where players attempt to get into debate about the most obvious, meaningless decisions.

An example was yesterday, blue corner.Ball comes in, headed away by red centre half to edge of the box.Blue player on edge of the box goes up for header, all over red player, falls over top nearly lands on head.

Give what seemed like an obvious and simple free kick to red for climbing and blue is dismayed. Not livid or dissenting but highly surprised and questioning me.

This was the tone for the game, even an innocuous decision that meant nothing and was relatively simple was questioned, albeit not in a dissenting way.

I tried all sorts during the game to deal with it, talking to them, explaining decisions, ignoring them, taking up my next position and telling them to shut up and get on with it.

Anybody got any tips?
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Only tip I can offer, that worked for me, was "loud consultation" with captains. In my match it got to the stage where EVERY decision, inc all ball in/out of play was being queried/moaned about. Told captains I wasn't putting up with that and anything similar form that moment on was being treated as dissent.
 
PinnerPaul said:
Only tip I can offer, that worked for me, was "loud consultation" with captains. In my match it got to the stage where EVERY decision, inc all ball in/out of play was being queried/moaned about. Told captains I wasn't putting up with that and anything similar form that moment on was being treated as dissent.
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Did that work Paul?

Considered that a couple of times but thought it may appear I was throwing my toys out of the pram.

Thanks @Anthony I have got a Sonik Blast I have ready for mass confrontations, perhaps I should use that for the first 15 - 20 minutes to set the tone and deafen the midfield along with slightly longer blasts.Perhaps firmness and not getting into any debate again for the first 20 minutes would show I am not interested in a debate.

@SM is your match fee paid in cocaine? :eek:
 
It did (It was U15s btw).

"Toys out of the pram" - I can see where you're coming from but if players as a whole, not just one or two, are refusing to co operate then you sometimes have to try something else to the normal control methods I think.
 
I have done this several times (called both captains in for a loud word) over the last couple of seasons and I wouldn't do it again. It's not worth the time for the difference it makes. If anything it makes you seem weak (at least how I felt). That's not to say I don't use a stepped approach, but formally calling in both captains? Not again.

If I find myself in this sort situation again (and let's just accept it does happen from time to time, but not often), it is actions speak louder than words time, the shutters are being pulled down with whistles for every little minor or even insignificant transgression and cards thrown out like lady panties at-an-in-his-prime-Tom-Jones-in-concert is happening (if they can be justified of course). If a team is intent on spoiling my enjoyment of the game through their childish behaviour, then they can accept zero tolerance. If they start to behave, I'll ease up.
 
SM said:
I have done this several times (called both captains in for a loud word) over the last couple of seasons and I wouldn't do it again. It's not worth the time for the difference it makes. If anything it makes you seem weak (at least how I felt). That's not to say I don't use a stepped approach, but formally calling in both captains? Not again.

If I find myself in this sort situation again (and let's just accept it does happen from time to time, but not often), it is actions speak louder than words time, the shutters are being pulled down with whistles for every little minor or even insignificant transgression and cards thrown out like lady panties at-an-in-his-prime-Tom-Jones-in-concert is happening (if they can be justified of course). If a team is intent on spoiling my enjoyment of the game through their childish behaviour, then they can accept zero tolerance. If they start to behave, I'll ease up.
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See where you're coming from, just think you're giving players an enormous amount of credit for being able to equate your sudden change of behaviour re tolerance to them behaving like idiots.

At least spelling it out to captains and all makes it crystal clear what you are unhappy about and whats going to happen if it continues.

However, as we all know, each game, team, player is different, what works in some games , won't in others and vice versa
 
I've used both approaches: loud captains' conference, and the tightening up on fouls/cards. I find the tightening works a lot more consistently, while the conferencing is more appropriate to younger teams. Adults know the laws, they should know what to expect from the officials in the grade they're playing.
If they can't work out the issue after seeing four other guys YC for opening their mouths too far, then they're going to get the fifth.
 
RegalRef said:
Cheers @Cheshire Ref .

Last couple of games have been like this. Even to the point where players attempt to get into debate about the most obvious, meaningless decisions.

An example was yesterday, blue corner.Ball comes in, headed away by red centre half to edge of the box.Blue player on edge of the box goes up for header, all over red player, falls over top nearly lands on head.

Give what seemed like an obvious and simple free kick to red for climbing and blue is dismayed. Not livid or dissenting but highly surprised and questioning me.

This was the tone for the game, even an innocuous decision that meant nothing and was relatively simple was questioned, albeit not in a dissenting way.

I tried all sorts during the game to deal with it, talking to them, explaining decisions, ignoring them, taking up my next position and telling them to shut up and get on with it.

Anybody got any tips?
Click to expand...

Somethings are easily when you are in this position:

1. Remove all concept of advantage from the game. Every infringement blow up for, no advantage. Quickly move to your re-start position after blowing the whistle.
2. Treat everything by the book. Throw-ins, free-kicks to the "blade of grass" accuracy.
3. Little use of voice - whistle for everything. For corners to be taken, free-kicks to be taken - they will soon bore of the sound of your whistle.
4. Caution sensibly - there is no need to go stupid, but 50/50 now become certain cautions, and maybe 40/60 as well.

The sooner the players realise that you can be a b*****d, the sooner they will shut up. You may not like what you become for 10-15 minutes but throttling a game can improve match control. Then you can release it slightly if they shut up.

I know it sounds like refereeing from the dark ages (or 1990's) but sometimes the old ways are the best (You just have to listen to todays's pop music or Radio 1.....):p
 
Take this as you will,but so far it has worked well for me, (fate tempted)
When i arrive at the ground i only talk to the manager or/and coach...always in a formal manner. I always ask when they have played the team before were there any disciplinary issues,especially between certain players (and i double check by asking the other manager).
I never talk to players pre- kick off,unless its some technical issue concerning the game, no banter, no chit chat, i'm a referee not Jeremy Kyle.
I want them to have the impression i'm not taking any s*** because thats what i want........................
During the game i'll sometimes get "What was that for?" i will just reply " The blue 7 tripped green 6 "No adlibbing no humerous comments. As the old saying goes ***Familiarity breeds contempt.***
When i get dissent...Whistle...(if play not already stopped) and YC. No messing about, i like to think that the team will respect me for my professional approach to the game. With the comments i get after most of my games, i know it works and a 9/10 match score from a Southport manager..... it does.... for me.. Thats the way i referee,because i am a professional...
I am the referee...The manager,coach,players,spectators,are not ....they think they are,they see from the sidelines and think they always have that perfect view,the perfect angle,the perfect knowledge of the game...they don't.... I drive a car but i know i'm not Lewis Hamilton...
So people around my pitch and the twenty-two players on it, i have something you have not.... A badge which says F.A. Referee...
You abuse me and disrespect me i will deal with you using the powers i have, and given to me in the Laws of the Game....
 
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lincs22 said:
Somethings are easily when you are in this position:

1. Remove all concept of advantage from the game. Every infringement blow up for, no advantage. Quickly move to your re-start position after blowing the whistle.
2. Treat everything by the book. Throw-ins, free-kicks to the "blade of grass" accuracy.
3. Little use of voice - whistle for everything. For corners to be taken, free-kicks to be taken - they will soon bore of the sound of your whistle.
4. Caution sensibly - there is no need to go stupid, but 50/50 now become certain cautions, and maybe 40/60 as well.

The sooner the players realise that you can be a b*****d, the sooner they will shut up. You may not like what you become for 10-15 minutes but throttling a game can improve match control. Then you can release it slightly if they shut up.

I know it sounds like refereeing from the dark ages (or 1990's) but sometimes the old ways are the best (You just have to listen to todays's pop music or Radio 1.....):p
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I get this and I understand the principals of it, but just a question - if you 'throttle the game' (nice term by the way), surely this will lead to more pointless questions as there are more decisions to question?
 
RegalRef said:
I get this and I understand the principals of it, but just a question - if you 'throttle the game' (nice term by the way), surely this will lead to more pointless questions as there are more decisions to question?
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But the point is you quickly move away to your re-start position. Blow your whistle for the re-start and if they are still questioning, then they are a player down. His fellow players will quickly get on his back and say "its not worth it, just get on an play".
 
Gotcha. That makes much more sense now.

Thanks everybody for the advice, I'll see if I have to put it into practice this weekend...
 
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