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WHU v CHE

Tom_R

Tom_R

Member
Level 5 Referee
What are we thinking of the Jarrod Bowen incident which resulted in West Ham’s goal being chalked off? I’m a referee and West Ham fan. I try my best to understand perspectives of other referees and normally get where they’re coming from but I’m struggling to see this one. The only thing I can see is Bowen’s trailing leg on Mendy but judging by the increased physicality in the PL this season I was confused by this one. I’m interested to see what other referees think as I appreciate my view might be blinkered as it affected the team I support. What do we think?
 
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It's simple. PGMOL doesn't seem to want any slightly controversial game changing moments (goal/pk/red). So they find any reason to chalk off a goal.

Meanwhile in the first weekend of the season a GK cleaned out an attacker after missing the ball by a mile and the PGMOL mouth pieces went out talking about how it was "expected contact" and not a foul.
 
Tom_R said:
What are we thinking of the Jarrod Bowen incident which resulted in West Ham’s goal being chalked off? I’m a referee and West Ham fan. I try my best to understand perspectives of other referees and normally get where they’re coming from but I’m struggling to see this one. The only thing I can see is Bowen’s trailing leg on Mendy but judging by the increased physicality in the PL this season I was confused by this one. I’m interested to see what other referees think as I appreciate my view might be blinkered as it affected the team I support. What do we think?
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The referee/VAR has bought the theatrics of Mendy. Had Mendy got straight to his feet after the trailing leg touched him the goal gets awarded. Instead he reacts like someone had booted him which makes it look like Bowen was late. It’s very harsh
 
cwyeary said:
It's simple. PGMOL doesn't seem to want any slightly controversial game changing moments (goal/pk/red). So they find any reason to chalk off a goal.
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Ironically it’s creating more controversy. There’s no way on earth that’s a foul, and anyone on here is going to have a hard time convincing me that it’s clear and obvious at the very least
 
As a Chelsea fan, obviously I was delighted when I heard on SSSS the equaliser had been ruled out... but I think Mendy and Chelsea have got lucky.

As we see on a regular basis, follow through challenges on attacker's are never given in the box and yet the defending side always get the decision for similar challenges by the attacker. No way Mendy would have recovered from his initial block even without the contact from Bowen to be in a position to try and save the follow up. His theatrics have dug him out of a hole!
 
I think it is a foul. Bowen jumps, completely misses the ball and lands on Mendy (who did play the ball). Mendy was always likely to get to the ball before Bowen; I understand why Bowen attempted to kick the ball but he would've been better off not doing so on this occasion. For me, this meets the definition of carelessly jumping at an opponent (intent is immaterial).

I agree with the statement that the decision would not be given if Mendy didn't stay down injured. The fact that Mendy has to stay down in order to get the decision says a lot about the state of English refereeing at the moment.
 
I remember endless debates about ‘technology assistance‘ at referee meetings back in the 90s and almost always the consensus was that it could never be made to work in such a fast paced game as football. However, the debates usually agreed with goal-line decisions being handed over to cameras or extra on-field assistants. It’s a real shame the ‘genie is out of the bottle‘ on this one, as I don’t think VAR could ever succeed tbh. The other thing we all agreed on at those meetings was that controversy will always be a part of the game and most people ‘secretly‘ like that, as it gives us something to discuss after the match (and keeps those ‘expert’ pundits in a job! 😂😂😂).
 
Thos decision is worse than the Newcastle debacle. Not only is it never a foul, but there's the naivity of the Officials being conned. A pathetic lack of understanding of the game at the highest level
 
I spoke yesterday about feeling a sense of shame when all referees are humiliated by our professional colleagues. I can't see us ever getting much respect at any level when we see this stuff on TV because we all get tarred with the same brush

Note also that the mistakes made by on field officials yesterday were accepted without much furore. Particularly the Villa offside
The game is only played in slow motion at Shockley Park. They need to stop making us all look like morons. When VAR interjects like this, it's a misuse and abuse of the whole process
 
Big Cat said:
Thos decision is worse than the Newcastle debacle. Not only is it never a foul, but there's the naivity of the Officials being conned. A pathetic lack of understanding of the game at the highest level
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Just watching it now, thats stinking.

I can ' just' about get the VAR recommending a review.

I cannot even begin to understand why the referee changed his mind

if the ref is not strong enough, he should not be out there in the first place.


Really be aswell PGMOL printing their own lotg book and distancing themselves from us plebs
 
Anubis said:
Just watching it now, thats stinking.

I can ' just' about get the VAR recommending a review.

I cannot even begin to understand why the referee changed his mind

if the ref is not strong enough, he should not be out there in the first place.


Really be aswell PGMOL printing their own lotg book and distancing themselves from us plebs
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I've long since argued we need two books
 
Anubis said:
Having slightly different interpretations is nearly ok

what we ( the 99%) outwith EPL have watched this seaxon, players and officials, is at odds with our mindset
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My view is that VAR forensics necessitates a different or extended book

I've always said, they need to get someone else to rewrite the book for them with proper definitions and structure for starters
 
Big Cat said:
My view is that VAR forensics necessitates a different or extended book

I've always said, they need to get someone else to rewrite the book for them with proper definitions and structure for starters
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When you put it that way, its indeed insane games with VAR ( are meant to) operate to the same lotg as those without.

much the same as the book used to have instructions for the AAR, which of course was only relevanf should your game have thus

I for one would be fine with that, pub league players would be also.
 
Anubis said:
Just watching it now, thats stinking.

I can ' just' about get the VAR recommending a review.

I cannot even begin to understand why the referee changed his mind

if the ref is not strong enough, he should not be out there in the first place.


Really be aswell PGMOL printing their own lotg book and distancing themselves from us plebs
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The slow motion makes it look much much worse.
It's a dive / play acting by Mendy.
Yes, there's contact, but it's trifling. The attacker is making an attempt to avoid contact.
Not only is it trifling, it's irrelevant.

Again, for VAR to get involved here was re-refereeing the game. Exactly what we were promised would not happen.
For me this was another VAR catastrophe that changed the result of a match.
 
santa sangria said:
The slow motion makes it look much much worse.
It's a dive / play acting by Mendy.
Yes, there's contact, but it's trifling. The attacker is making an attempt to avoid contact.
Not only is it trifling, it's irrelevant.

Again, for VAR to get involved here was re-refereeing the game. Exactly what we were promised would not happen.
For me this was another VAR catastrophe that changed the result of a match.
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Going to disagree with you there. Striker could have easily cleared the keeper but decides to drag his foot to initiate contact like they do in nearly every game when they can see the GK is going to beat them to the ball. Stupid from him and gave the ref all the ammo he needed to chalk it off.

Can clearly see he's dragged his foot on purpose. Video here: 9.24 - 9.26 of this;



Having said all that could have gone either way to be honest. Can see why it would and would not be given as a foul.
 
I think Bowen left his foot in on the keeper to try and get a penalty, theres clearly contact with Bowen and the keeper so it is a foul. If Mendy missed the ball and Bowen gone down then it would have been a penalty so it's the same both ways. Had Mendy not sold the contact like it was a power bomb off Syco Syd then he doesnt get the foul as they probably wouldnt have looked at it.
 
All this stems from players trying to cheat. Sky & MoTD analysing every ref decision and managers constantly complaining.
We all know it wasn’t really a foul and Mendy conned the ref but Bowen left his foot in to try and con a penalty. I honestly cant stand players trailing their legs. It’s so unnatural and I don’t how they’ve trained to do this.
The other was the Leeds game. Yes small shirt pull, never seem to be punished but again watch the Brighton players feet, somehow they both stick together and he falls down.. have you noticed no player ever falls forward when pushed, they drop straight down.
 
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