The Ref Stop

When to allow a quick free kick

Peter Grove said:
I think either your memory is failing you or mine is failing me. I can remember plenty. For instance, there was one just last season in a game involving Spurs (again, if memory serves). Although whether a goal is scored from a quick free kick makes no difference to whether they should be allowed or not.

Anyway, the article linked to below, mentions two that took place within days of each other in 2001 and also gave an official FA position on the matter. One of the more salient parts of the article goes as follows:

http://www.standard.co.uk/sport/no-change-to-free-kick-rule-say-fa-6354611.html

As regards match control, see @CapnBloodbeard's post.
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@Peter Grove this article is almost 16 years old!!!!!!!
 
The Ref Stop
Cheshire Ref said:
In a word, no. Nobody is expecting it, the goalkeeper is not ready. That for me doesn't sit right.
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So in that hypothetical scenario, are you saying you would actually disallow a goal scored in this way? With what basis in law?

Let's face it, 95% of the time attackers won't be looking to go quickly. And on at least half of any other occasions you will get to the spot of the foul and therefore (as you say) drive an expectation of a ceremonial kick. But on that rare occasion when an attacker goes quickly before you get there, then doing anything other than playing on is a mockery. And if the GK isn't ready in that situation, whose fault is that?!
 
Russell Jones said:
So in that hypothetical scenario, are you saying you would actually disallow a goal scored in this way? With what basis in law?

Let's face it, 95% of the time attackers won't be looking to go quickly. And on at least half of any other occasions you will get to the spot of the foul and therefore (as you say) drive an expectation of a ceremonial kick. But on that rare occasion when an attacker goes quickly before you get there, then doing anything other than playing on is a mockery. And if the GK isn't ready in that situation, whose fault is that?!
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@Russell Jones I suppose if i was in that hypothetical scenario then i would have to allow the goal as you rightly say i would have no grounds to disallow it. I make dam sure i am never in that hypothetical scenario though.
 
Russell Jones said:
Trying to draw parallels between refereeing in the EPL and the matches that we are involved in day in day out is a nonsense. Cautioning procedure, positioning (especially when working with CARs), dealing with repeated substitutions etc etc all fundamentally different at grassroots level ... so no reason why free kick procedure can't differ as well.
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Much as we all hate it - you're correct. Some other biggies and not so biggies as well:-

Offinabus - ignored or yellow used at best, verbal dissent largely ignored - we've even seen physical contact with the referee and players shouting inches from the officals' faces not punished.

Plenty of latitude allowed on positions of free kicks & throw ins - poor/illegal technique from the latter not picked up and my old favourite GKs allowed to wear same kit as officials.

Add to that a general reluctance to issue "soft" cautions, especially if its the 2nd one for the player and I think we have to accept, as you say, that laws - that should be the same for all levels - are obviously "applied" using different "criteria" at various levels.
 
Player needs treatment
but worse
Referee is standing between ball and goal
By the laws, yes, you can allow it
But it seems grossly unfair and negligent to me
 
santa sangria said:
Player needs treatment
but worse
Referee is standing between ball and goal
By the laws, yes, you can allow it
But it seems grossly unfair and negligent to me
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Plenty of reasons to justify a retake - could even say you wanted a word
with defender, after the foul. It wasn't really a yellow, but could certainly justify a talking to.
 
Cheshire Ref said:
@Peter Grove this article is almost 16 years old!!!!!!!
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Yes it is. And the point at issue was whether a quick free kick goal had ever been scored within the 25-year history of the Premier League. I'm fairly sure that 16 years ago is less than 25 years ago. As I said, this was just one example from within the relevant time frame and one that I was able to find within about two minutes of starting to look. Plus it had the added advantage of setting out an official FA stance on quick free kicks.

If you're referring to the relevance of the principles on quick free kicks espoused by the article, as far as I am aware they are as relevant now as they were then and no change of thinking on this matter has been expressed since by the FA (or any other authoritative source that I know of). Incidentally, 16 years is nothing - many of the principles of refereeing that we follow go back a lot, lot longer than 16 years.
 
Peter Grove said:
Yes it is. And the point at issue was whether a quick free kick goal had ever been scored within the 25-year history of the Premier League. I'm fairly sure that 16 years ago is less than 25 years ago. As I said, this was just one example from within the relevant time frame and one that I was able to find within about two minutes of starting to look. Plus it had the added advantage of setting out an official FA stance on quick free kicks.

If you're referring to the relevance of the principles on quick free kicks espoused by the article, as far as I am aware they are as relevant now as they were then and no change of thinking on this matter has been expressed since by the FA (or any other authoritative source that I know of). Incidentally, 16 years is nothing - many of the principles of refereeing that we follow go back a lot, lot longer than 16 years.
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Please dont take offence as my comment was not intended to offend at all, apologies if it seemed that way.

Whilst there has been no directive publicly distributed by the FA i know that the guidance given to PGMOL officials is to not allow quick free kicks around the box. Hence why you just dont see them anymore. A few years back (and i cant believe it was 16) and as you quite rightly point out they became quite common. Goalkeeper lining up his wall and the kick taker puts it into empty net on his opposite side. How times have you seen that this season, last season or in the last few years?
 
In my experience. I wouldn't allow a quick free kick if there is a chance to score. In their own half or just inside opposing half is fine.

I would always say on the whistle if there is a chance to score as the last thing I want is any agro from the defending team. But I would make sure the attacking team know that it's on the whistle.
 
Cheshire Ref said:
Please dont take offence as my comment was not intended to offend at all, apologies if it seemed that way.

Whilst there has been no directive publicly distributed by the FA i know that the guidance given to PGMOL officials is to not allow quick free kicks around the box. Hence why you just dont see them anymore. A few years back (and i cant believe it was 16) and as you quite rightly point out they became quite common. Goalkeeper lining up his wall and the kick taker puts it into empty net on his opposite side. How times have you seen that this season, last season or in the last few years?
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there are a lot of things that the big boys do that we, lower on the totem pole, don't
 
Jim Garrett said:
In my experience. I wouldn't allow a quick free kick if there is a chance to score. In their own half or just inside opposing half is fine.

I would always say on the whistle if there is a chance to score as the last thing I want is any agro from the defending team. But I would make sure the attacking team know that it's on the whistle.
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actually i am mpre likely to allow it if there is a chance to score. I won't reward the defender for committing an offence.
 
My personal opinion is that we should not put preset conditions on when and when a quick free kick can or cant be taken. The example in the real madrid game I dont like. The referee becomes actively involved in the deception of the free kick which, simply, as a referee you cant allow. If the attacking team cook up there own inventive quick free kick and the all conditions required by law have been met then I have no issue.
I tend to include free kicks in my pre match chat to the captains. I say if you want a quick free kick then just put it down and get on with it. If I'm not happy with it i.e. i need to deal with something before play restarts or its not taken from where the offence occurred i will pull it back. If you dawdle on it it will be on my whistle. That way if a legal quick free kick is taken and a goal results its been covered and there can be no complaints. Tbf the level most of us are at its hardly an issue anyway as they'd much rather have a punt into the box or at goal than try anything fancy.
 
I think you should watch at the (main) reason why you would allow a quick free kick: so the defenders don't have time to get back or to get organized better. You avoid the defending team from getting an "extra" reward for their offence, apart from stopping the initial attack.

Therefore, for me, a "quick" free kick should be exactly that: quick. As in, within a couple of seconds. Once you wait longer, players are back so the initial reason to allow it just isn't there anymore. You kind of get into a new situation, where the quick free-kick isn't linked to the offence anymore.

You don't want to give an extra reward for an offence, but you shouldn't want to give an extra punishment either. Allowing a shot at an empty goal with the defenders and the goalkeeper standing by probably isn't what the lawmakers had in mind.
 
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J79 said:
I think you should watch at the (main) reason why you would allow a quick free kick: so the defenders don't have time to get back or to get organized better. You avoid the defending team from getting an "extra" reward for their offence, apart from stopping the initial attack.

Therefore, for me, a "quick" free kick should be exactly that: quick. As in, within a couple of seconds. Once you wait longer, players are back so the initial reason to allow it just isn't there anymore. You kind of get into a new situation, where the quick free-kick isn't linked anymore to the offence.

You don't want to give an extra reward for an offence, but you shouldn't want to give an extra punishment either. Allowing a shot at an empty goal with the defenders and the goalkeeper standing by probably isn't what the lawmakers had in mind.
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i think most people will agree with that
 
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we all need to do what we need to do to enhance our game. and after all match control is the single most important skill you need as a ref
 
Earlier this season, U14 inter School county cup game.

I gave a (dodgy) ifk for a back pass to the keeper. The innocence of use, keeper throws the ball straight to the opposition striker who promptly pops it on the deck, passes to his mate who slots it home.
 
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