What would you do...........

[mikedn]

Copied this from a referee site on facebook.. but what would you do?

Set Piece direct free kick to attacking team to the right of the penalty area, the Referee places the ball holds up whistle to show 'do not start until signalled' He paces out the defensive wall, advises the players they are in the penalty area and any unnatural arm movement and contact with the ball will be a penalty. He moves to the left to take up his position, an attacking player stands in front of the ball with two colleagues 5m in front of him and behind the ball. The referee blow's his whistle, the player standing in front of the ball picks up the ball holds it above his head, replaces it 1m to his left and the player to his left runs and kicks for goal.
On this occasion the ball goes out of play, any action required? if it had gone into goal what would your decision be.

 

[haywain]

Good question

Caution the player who picked the ball up....for delaying the restart (or dissent or unsporting behaviour) .and.....have the kick retaken (if it had gone in)

Having the kick retaken sounds unfair, given the actual outcome so perhaps give the goal kick and tell the guy who handled the ball not to do it again

 

[CO. DOWN REF]

Would that be the correct restart ....? You could end up replaying from that point on .......

 

[CapnBloodbeard]

The kick isn't going to occur because you're going to intervene the moment they start wasting time
But assuming the kick occurs - if it misses (ie goal kick), then allow it. No different to the ball rolling off the mark. Unlike 'kick before the whistle' you don't have to go back no matter the outcome; you get to use your judgement here.
If I was going to allow the outcome I doubt I'd caution, but maybe have a word, let them know they're only hurting themselves. A caution is feasible, but a stern warning may suffice.
The retake is the same reason as any retake where the ball is off the mark - and in any other scenario (say, a quick free kick), if the ball is off the mark but they miss - well, you're not going to make them retake it, are you?

 

[Russell Jones]

Hmmm, definite caution for the player who picked up and moved the ball. As you say @haywain, you can take your pick of what code is goes under, including deliberate handball! However, even though I'd love to play on with a goal kick, I get the feeling that it needs to be a retake as the ball was never correctly put in play .. question is whether you can play an 'advantage' to the defending team in that situation.

 

[HoofItYouDonkey]

You can play advantage from a foul-throw (i.e. the ball was never in play correctly), so I would say caution and goal kick, though I would blow as soon as the bloke picked it up.

 

[Monotone Whistle]

As the ball is not in play:
- no handball is possible
- the kick must be retaken and the player warned that further attempts to delay the restart of play will result in a caution.

To be honest, you'd hope the referee would be on the whistle as soon as the player picks it up.

 

[CallumRushton13]

Is the ball not in play when it is touched and moves?? Therefore it is in play when he touched it with his hand and it moves so handball is possible...

I would be stopping the game however when he handles it and telling him to put it down... No need for a caution

 

[Russell Jones]

On rechecking the magic book (LOTG) the ball is not in play until it is kicked. So @Monotone Whistle is right, no handball is possible. But personally I'd still be cautioning for UB in any case. Still reckon it needs to be a retake though. As you say Callum, avoid the whole thing by being vigilant and blowing when he first picks it up!

Nice question though Mikedn

 

[lincs22]

If he intentionally moved the position of the ball for his colleague to get a better shot at goal, then caution for USB (ie cheating) not delay of game.

But you re-start with the free-kick again from the correct position.

 

[Yacinho]

I imagine I would have done something before, but let say the kick have been taken ;

I think it's kinda like when a player tries to play a FK quickly, from the wrong position (plus the "cheating" part)
- Ball goes out of play to the defending team or this team immediately intercept the ball : Let the advantage go, no caution
- Goal or anything that benefits the attacking team : FK to be retaken from the correct position and caution for USB

 

[CapnBloodbeard]

I think people are getting a little too technical here. We can keep this very simple, respect the laws and the spirit. The problem with the retake is that it's unfair. We all know the fairest solution is to consider the kick allowed if the ball goes straight over the goal line - the question is whether we can.
And of course we can!
Whether the kick is taken from the correct position is discretionary. If he kicker moves the ball a metre then takes the kick before I can respond, I'd be inclined to unofficially consider whether he got an advantage. If he misses, then the ball was still on the correct spot. If he doesn't, he moved it off the correct spot. Keep it simple and everybody's happy.
And this is exactly what we do all game anyway - any other kick we allow a certain amount of discretion as to how 'big' the 'correct spot' is. It's not like telling him to wait for the whistle where he HAS to wait, and it's black and white - either he did or didn't wait.

Hmmm, definite caution for the player who picked up and moved the ball. As you say @haywain, you can take your pick of what code is goes under, including deliberate handball! However, even though I'd love to play on with a goal kick, I get the feeling that it needs to be a retake as the ball was never correctly put in play .. question is whether you can play an 'advantage' to the defending team in that situation.

Even if the ball was in play, 'deliberate handball', aside from not existing, isn't a caution in itself. All handling must be deliberate to be considered a foul, so 'deliberate handball' is a redundant phrase. Eliminate the word handball from your vocabulary It's only a caution if it breaks up an opponent's attack or is an attempt to score a goal

Is the ball not in play when it is touched and moves?? Therefore it is in play when he touched it with his hand and it moves so handball is possible...

Kicked and moves. Can't commit a foul when the ball is out of play

You can play advantage from a foul-throw .

No you can't

 

[haywain]

No you can't

You can as long as you don't call or indicate it as such

Don't think paul means literally call advantage, cap'n, just an observation that it happens in many matches every week, including that there premier league of our'n

 

[HullRef]

What if the player moved it a yard left of where you told him to put it and they lined up from there and then the other player picked it up and put it back on the original spot? Has he done anything wrong?

 

[Russell Jones]

It's only a caution if it breaks up an opponent's attack or is an attempt to score a goal

Agreed Capn, my use of the word 'deliberate' in regard to this handball was foolish. But I was thinking that this example was nailed on for a 'handball in an attempt to score a goal' , forgetting that the ball wasn't actually in play until it was kicked!

Still though not convinced that your analogy to other free kick situations where the kick is taken from the wrong place is a helpful one. The picking up of the ball in this instance is so obviously an attempt to cheat that it needs cautioning (for UB).which makes it quite different. But I'm concerned that we can't reach a consensus on here about whether or not the kick must be retaken ... on balance I'm now leaning towards your view that by the spirit of the laws we can give the advantage to the defending team and go with the GK .. but have others been similarly persuaded??

 

[haywain]

What if the player moved it a yard left of where you told him to put it and they lined up from there and then the other player picked it up and put it back on the original spot? Has he done anything wrong?

This is beginning to remind me of the 'you are the ref' where a cow wanders into the goal, but off the pitch, behind the goal line, whilst the ball is still in play.....

 

[HoofItYouDonkey]

You can as long as you don't call or indicate it as such

Don't think paul means literally call advantage, cap'n, just an observation that it happens in many matches every week, including that there premier league of our'n

Yes.
I don't mean scream advantage and stick my arms out, I mean just overlook the high foot or whatever.

 

[CallumRushton13]

Can we all agree that the correct thing to do is to bend the laws in order to suit the defending team here... Ie free kick is crap play one, free kick is good call it back and order a retake (possibly a YC too)??