The Ref Stop

Junior/Youth What to submit extraordinary match report for/punch at U12

MarcusSurreyRef

MarcusSurreyRef

Youth Referee
Hi all,

I have never had to do what says in the title, so therefore is why I’m asking.

U12 boys match. Simple free kick given for a basic foul. Then player who was fouled punched the person who fouled him. My view was that for U12 it is less about giving cautions and red cards and more about education and learning from it. I know that U14 and above I would give RC for VC. But I didn’t in this game for the various reasons listed above. I went to the coach of the player who punched the opposition saying “I ask that he be substituted. I don’t want to give out red cards at this level. Are you happy with this?” He agreed and did so, substituting his player for another one. Context: 10 mins remaining. No complaints about this from anyone until the full time when I go over to my bag and multiple parents come over to me and say “that should have been a red card ref, what are you doing” and “I have no idea why they let 14 year olds referee”. They did this aggressively and even had a right go at my dad who was simply watching. I was quite taken aback and thought that if I gave one of their players a red then they would have a right go at me and say they’re too young. I simply replied “it’d more about education than a £55 fine at this level”.

I never got the player’s name so idk what to do, submit a report if that’s what I should do for a punch?

I’m really quite confused at what else I could or should have done? Maybe give the red, or ask the coach to play with 8 players but not show the red card because I don’t think an 11 year old should have to pay £55 when he probably didn’t know better.

Looking for helpful feedback here as I am feeling quite overwhelmed about all this as my previous game this morning all went well and I have had lots of positive comments before from players, coaches and parents alike. by the way I am 15.

Thanks all.
 
The Ref Stop
Sometimes, the best way to educate someone is to card them. I got booked when I was about 14-15 and I still remember it to this day - it’s the only caution I’ve ever received. I remember the referee who did it too and we laugh about it often.
At the end of the day, it was your decision to make and none of us were there to witness it. However, I think the first line I used is important. There’s many ways to educate people and sometimes using cards, even at a younger age, will work. They are in your armoury for a reason.
 
I think you did one of the right things. I personally would give a red because an 11 year old that punches a peer in the street could be prosecuted for that action. So for me a RC is justified. It’s not like you’re downgrading a DOGSO to a yellow because they’ve been clumsy and it feels harsh, this is a violent deliberate act.

You run the risk of parents taking issue with anything you do but at least if what you do is right in law and the competition rules then the CFA will back you.
 
Perfect. I agree with what you guys have said and will give a red next time.

For future: what is an extraordinary match report given for? I haven’t had to give any cautions or reds(!!) so haven’t needed to submit a match report on WholeGame, let alone an extraordinary one.
 
MarcusSurreyRef said:
Perfect. I agree with what you guys have said and will give a red next time.

For future: what is an extraordinary match report given for? I haven’t had to give any cautions or reds(!!) so haven’t needed to submit a match report on WholeGame, let alone an extraordinary one.
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Basically anything discipline related that isn't a standard card offence.

So for example, could be something like a discriminatory comment, a massive confrontation after the game.

Generally, if you think something has happened that shouldn't have, it falls under an extraordinary report.

Remember it's always better to report something and have nothing come of it than to not report it in the first place
 
I’m at the other level of experience & still learning that you get more aggravation from not issuing cards than trying to manage them, when you/I believe we are helping the players avoid fines/bans, the players never see it this way.

BTW I managed a second yellow on Saturday & should have issued the red card.

This forum is a good l place to learn & develop your refereeing skills.

Without being there, what specific issues are you wanting to report?
 
Just linking to my earlier post about a punch at U12 that I didn’t give a RC for as I felt it would be better that they be subbed off. Other forum members have now helpfully changed my view
 
I would say Marcus, it's great you've recognised the learning from this incident, but also remember to look for the positives here. You've made a decision, you've stayed committed to that decision (helps your match control/credibility), and you're clearly trying to learn which is commendable (especially when most refs your age are just in it for the money).
 
There are some things that you can manage at young age groups, but a punch isn't one of those and he has to be sent off regardless of age. You are obviously a young referee on a learning curve and you will make mistakes, but don't try to manage events that are unmanageable.

In terms of what you can report, the only answer is absolutely nothing. As far as the game was concerned the player was substituted, not sent off, and therefore there is nothing to report. An extraordinary incident is for things that happen that don't fit into the standard caution and send off sections of the WGS report. There hasn't been an extraordinary incident, there has been a sending off offence that didn't result in a red card, so there is nothing to report
 
Examples of extraordinary reports, but not limited to:
Surrounding match official (you have to take on field action).
Mass confrontation
Discriminatory / Aggravated offences.
Non playing participant and send offs. (in my experience the absence of one just results in an email requesting the information you would have put in one).
Anything unusual that you aren't sure is an offence or not.

I'm not going to say too much about your approach to reds/yellows other than we owe each other a responsibility to deal with things properly because it's not fair on next week's ref if we don't.
 
@MarcusSurreyRef as everyone has said, you are young and learning. Learning is what it is all about :)

No need to report anything and if anything does come from on (which I doubt it will). Just be honest and manage the situation with integrity. You are young and you are allowed to make mistakes. 14 years old and refereeing is brilliant. Don't let one game get your head down.

Good luck on your next game!
 
I’m not sure if you’re a player yourself, Marcus, but as I’ve developed as a referee, I often ask myself, “What would I want the referee to do if I were on the receiving end of a challenge—or in your case, violent conduct?” For instance, if someone punches me, I expect them to be sent off. Such behavior is unacceptable in any context, especially on a football pitch.

While I understand your point about education being preferable to fines in some situations, I wouldn’t apply that reasoning to violent conduct or dissent. In the majority of U12 matches, most incidents are careless; however, violent conduct and dissent are not.

@dylanbailey4444 articulated it perfectly! I vividly remember my first yellow card (for dissent 🫣)—that experience taught me a lot about what’s acceptable behaviour, along with a rollicking from my dad. A card is a form of education, much like receiving a detention at school or being stopped by the police.
 
Thanks everyone.

Really helpful info that is beneficial in my opinion in improving as soon as I can, because I am not in this for the money. I partially agree with bits of replies saying that what would I think if I was in the victim’s shoes or a parent on the sideline, but at U12 I just feel that things are a bit more lenient - which maybe should change! I haven’t yet given a yellow or red or sinning but have used the STEP approach, but something I’m wary of is if I ask for a player’s name for a caution or red, what is stopping them from not giving it to me, or giving me a false name? Or if I show a card and I ask for the match fee from a coach at the end of the game, what do I do if they refuse?

I wouldn’t say I’m scared to give out cards, but am just cautious of giving them, as I may be a bit harsh or worried about the outcome/consequence. Surely others have felt like this at the beginning of their ref journey? If so, how did you deal with it?

Any further tips to help with these other questions? Thanks so far, this forum has been a great place for me to improve my LOTG knowledge and application
 
MarcusSurreyRef said:
Thanks everyone.

Really helpful info that is beneficial in my opinion in improving as soon as I can, because I am not in this for the money. I partially agree with bits of replies saying that what would I think if I was in the victim’s shoes or a parent on the sideline, but at U12 I just feel that things are a bit more lenient - which maybe should change! I haven’t yet given a yellow or red or sinning but have used the STEP approach, but something I’m wary of is if I ask for a player’s name for a caution or red, what is stopping them from not giving it to me, or giving me a false name? Or if I show a card and I ask for the match fee from a coach at the end of the game, what do I do if they refuse?

I wouldn’t say I’m scared to give out cards, but am just cautious of giving them, as I may be a bit harsh or worried about the outcome/consequence. Surely others have felt like this at the beginning of their ref journey? If so, how did you deal with it?

Any further tips to help with these other questions? Thanks so far, this forum has been a great place for me to improve my LOTG knowledge and application
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Main thing is, you need to look out for yourself.

If someone was to report you for allowing a player to assault another player, with you knowingly asking for player to be subbed, you could be in a lot of trouble.

Note down whatever name the player gives you. Log that name through with the County FA, and when they realise Donald Duck doesn’t play for the Dog & Duck, the club will get charged for fielding an ineligible player, or player will be done for giving false name.

If manager refuses to give you the money, no problem. Report it to the relevant parties and you’ll get your money one way or another.

Think of it this way; what if the manager of the player who was punched refused to give you money? That scenario could go either way, not just because you gave someone a card. Could just as likely happen for not giving a card.
 
MarcusSurreyRef said:
but something I’m wary of is if I ask for a player’s name for a caution or red, what is stopping them from not giving it to me,
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Nothing. But that's easily dealt with, name or 2nd caution.
MarcusSurreyRef said:
or giving me a false name?
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Report what they give you.
MarcusSurreyRef said:
Or if I show a card and I ask for the match fee from a coach at the end of the game, what do I do if they refuse?
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Say ok, no problem. Thanks for the game. And to ring the league when you get home who will ensure you get paid. Usually they will pay you and make the club pay it back with a fine on top. Never once been refused payment because I gave a card.
MarcusSurreyRef said:
I wouldn’t say I’m scared to give out cards, but am just cautious of giving them, as I may be a bit harsh or worried about the outcome/consequence.
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Once you get used to it, it gets easier. Have to say if your in this for progression you will get nowhere without your cards. Eventually you will be forced to use them by the players/teams that you are refereeing.
 
MarcusSurreyRef said:
Thanks everyone.

Really helpful info that is beneficial in my opinion in improving as soon as I can, because I am not in this for the money. I partially agree with bits of replies saying that what would I think if I was in the victim’s shoes or a parent on the sideline, but at U12 I just feel that things are a bit more lenient - which maybe should change! I haven’t yet given a yellow or red or sinning but have used the STEP approach, but something I’m wary of is if I ask for a player’s name for a caution or red, what is stopping them from not giving it to me, or giving me a false name? Or if I show a card and I ask for the match fee from a coach at the end of the game, what do I do if they refuse?

I wouldn’t say I’m scared to give out cards, but am just cautious of giving them, as I may be a bit harsh or worried about the outcome/consequence. Surely others have felt like this at the beginning of their ref journey? If so, how did you deal with it?

Any further tips to help with these other questions? Thanks so far, this forum has been a great place for me to improve my LOTG knowledge and application
Click to expand...
I think plenty of people have mentioned being lenient at the lower ages of youth is absolutely acceptable. Just most (all) wouldn't do it for violent conduct. As it is a step too far and a lesson needs to be taught. I very rarely hand out cards to youth as most are just trying to have fun.

If a player gives you a false name. That is fine. Report the name as normal. If it isn't on the teamsheet that is up to the club to sort out. Not your problem. Just accurately record the name you were given.

If a team refuses to pay the match fee, then walk away and tell the league secretary who will get your match fee and the club will receive a fine.
 
dylanbailey4444 said:
Sometimes, the best way to educate someone is to card them. I got booked when I was about 14-15 and I still remember it to this day - it’s the only caution I’ve ever received. I remember the referee who did it too and we laugh about it often.
At the end of the day, it was your decision to make and none of us were there to witness it. However, I think the first line I used is important. There’s many ways to educate people and sometimes using cards, even at a younger age, will work. They are in your armoury for a reason.
Click to expand...

I still remember my first booking when I was about 13. I think I've had about 70 since 😅😇

On to the original decision. Don't overthink things. A punch is a red card at any age group and at every level. There is nothing else to think about.
 
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