What should IFAB include in a new handball law?

[santa sangria]

Well, it's in the title. From another thread, IFAB have hinted that they will revise the handball law.
I think it's fairly widely agreed that the current combination of law, additional guidance, understanding and interpretation is unsatisfactory.

So, what should it say?
What scenarios should be included?
Should "deliberate" stay?
How could the law be revised to in line with other laws?

 

[Ciley Myrus]

As I repeated during the WC, my own take on it is along lines of

"did the player do anything to prevent the ball hitting his hand"

if we are using the recent example of last weeks Wolves City goal then this would then change my own rationale of goal, to no goal, as by having his hands in the position that he did, he invited the ball to hit his hand.

 

[alexgr]

I think you can simplify it further - a handball is called if the ball hits the hand or arm and, in the opinion of the referee, the player gains an advantage.

"did the player do anything to prevent the ball hitting his hand"

if we are using the recent example of last weeks Wolves City goal then this would then change my own rationale of goal, to no goal, as by having his hands in the position that he did, he invited the ball to hit his hand.

I can see where you're coming from though personally not convinced - say a ball is launched from a couple of yards away and hits a player who reasonably has no time to move, are you really going to start penalising that?

 

[Ciley Myrus]

I think you can simplify it further - a handball is called if the ball hits the hand or arm and, in the opinion of the referee, the player gains an advantage.



I can see where you're coming from though personally not convinced - say a ball is launched from a couple of yards away and hits a player who reasonably has no time to move, are you really going to start penalising that?

Aye fair point, i dont want to be penalising for having the ball hit at them......let me go back to the drawing board

 

[Ciley Myrus]

*** Unless you deem it to be impossible for the player to have reacted in a preventative manner then if you deem the player had opportunity to have his hands/arms somewhere other than where they hit the ball/ball hit them, then you doth decree the offence of handball **

am happy with that now

 

[es1]

it's a very tough one...the law we have now works, we just dont want to allow goals to be scored whether accidental or otherwise if it's played by an arm / hand

i like the theory that gaining an advantage from the handball = free kick however i cant think of many situations where a player doesn't get any sort of advantage from the handball so all / most would now get penalised!

there needs to be some sort of caveat...

@Ciley Myrus, using your idea, would the wolves goal still be allowed?! because he probably did all he could to avoid it happening, he jumped / dived in a natural way and he couldnt have reacted to prevent the handball, it was just very unfortunate that it hit his arm and went in!

 

[Ciley Myrus]

it's a very tough one...the law we have now works, we just dont want to allow goals to be scored whether accidental or otherwise if it's played by an arm / hand

i like the theory that gaining an advantage from the handball = free kick however i cant think of many situations where a player doesn't get any sort of advantage from the handball so all / most would now get penalised!

there needs to be some sort of caveat...

@Ciley Myrus, using your idea, would the wolves goal still be allowed?! because he probably did all he could to avoid it happening, he jumped / dived in a natural way and he couldnt have reacted to prevent the handball, it was just very unfortunate that it hit his arm and went in!

I answered that on my first post...by having his arms where he had them he led to the possibility of the ball striking it/them

 

[es1]

I answered that on my first post...by having his arms where he had them he led to the possibility of the ball striking it/them

i'm not sure i buy that though, the same could be said about anyone at any time if their arms were away from their body. it's a natural movement to dive for the ball like that...

appreciate this is all hypothetical and bashing ideas round!

 

[Sheffields Finest]

Just ask Padders....

 

[Ciley Myrus]

i'm not sure i buy that though, the same could be said about anyone at any time if their arms were away from their body. it's a natural movement to dive for the ball like that...

appreciate this is all hypothetical and bashing ideas round!

aye its just brain storming. there is a reason why we sit here doing this and the powers that be sit round a table drinking Evain and munching on Jelly Tots

 

[WilliamD]

Law - players are not meant to handle the ball. It's the players responsibility not to handle the ball - if, in the opinion of the referee a handball was deliberate or the player did not move his hand(s) out of the way when he could of reasonably been expected to or was easily capable of doing so, it's a handball.

The above would cover things like the WC final handball...the defender blocked the flight of the ball across the mouth of the goal by having his hand above his bent knee...that gave him an advantage as a defender and made the ball go out for a corner...the burden should be on the players to make sure their hand doesn't touch the ball

flaw to my idea is this gives us another mind reading task in addition to "deliberate"...we'd also have to judge whether they made a good enough effort to get their hands of the way...

 

[one]

What should IFAB include in a new handball law?

Whatever they include, they should conclude it with: World cup referees must interpret deliberate handball the same as any other referee.

 

[es1]

aye its just brain storming. there is a reason why we sit here doing this and the powers that be sit round a table drinking Evain and munching on Jelly Tots

we all want what's best for the game at the end of the day!

hopefully those with the actual power to do something about it can update the laws or clarify to all refs at all levels so we apply the laws consistently

 

[JH]

If, in the opinion of the referee, the player could have prevented the ball making contact with their arm or hand but failed to do so, they should be penalised for handball.

Something along the lines of prevention.

Then there's just one question to ask yourself - could they have prevented it? Yes or no.

 

[Padfoot]

Doesn’t need to be changed.

Players need to learn to accept decisions as given and referees need to grow a spine and enforce the laws as written.

Problem solved.

 

[Ciley Myrus]

Doesn’t need to be changed.

Players need to learn to accept decisions as given and referees need to grow a spine and enforce the laws as written.

Problem solved.

Certainly nobody has issues with the concept of accepting the decision. What would be nice is a more consistent approach by us as referees over handball though. using last weeks talking point, City v Wolves, it seems a 50/50 split.
I for one can understand a players fustration, if its given by one ref, but not the next
Anything that could provide us with more uniformity has got to be welcomed.

 

[Padfoot]

But the split has arisen because referees seek to read things into the laws that simply aren’t there.....for whatever reason.

If we just accept the laws as written, officiate on that basis and stop trying pander to players incorrect perceptions of the laws then we would all be much more consistent.

The problem isn’t the content of the LOTG it’s the misapplication, whether wilful or through ineptitude.

 

[alexgr]

Doesn’t need to be changed.

Players need to learn to accept decisions as given and referees need to grow a spine and enforce the laws as written.

Problem solved.

I partially agree but it is impossible for me to know with absolute certainty whether an action carried out by a human being that isn’t me is deliberate. I physically can never know the intent of said act. Now, I can make a pretty good guess, but I can never truly know

 

[Padfoot]

I partially agree but it is impossible for me to know with absolute certainty whether an action carried out by a human being that isn’t me is deliberate. I physically can never know the intent of said act. Now, I can make a pretty good guess, but I can never truly know

If you are that incapable of making that determination then you simply don’t sanction any handball offences.
Sure you can sell that to the players and salvage your match control.

It isn’t the fault of the LOTG that you are unable to use your experience and judgement to make a decision.

 

[Big Cat]

But the split has arisen because referees seek to read things into the laws that simply aren’t there.....for whatever reason.

If we just accept the laws as written, officiate on that basis and stop trying pander to players incorrect perceptions of the laws then we would all be much more consistent.

The problem isn’t the content of the LOTG it’s the misapplication, whether wilful or through ineptitude.

This is a purely hypothetical discussion. We apply the LOTG as they are written in games, but why should that preclude us from suggesting improvements with these idle exchanges?