A&H

What is "dissent"?

Padfoot

Padfoot

The Persecuted One
Was going to raise this in a response on another thread, but didn't want to hijack it away from the topic being discussed.

Not sure whether, as I have advanced in years, I have become less tolerent and now view dissent differently...or whether I've always viewed it this way, but the advancing years have made it more tiresome to endure......

For me, dissent, is anything that a participant says or does that is looking to undermine your confidence, match control, or dispute your decision. It's a wonderful offence that can be used to deal with the really annoying players that chip away at referees without necessarily swearing etc. When you get bored of hearing them, warn them once, twice if you're feeling really generous, then bang the lemon out.

Likewise if you have a player you know from past experience won't settle down until they are in the book....it's a handy offence to facilitate that.
 
The Referee Store
Padfoot said:
Was going to raise this in a response on another thread, but didn't want to hijack it away from the topic being discussed.

Not sure whether, as I have advanced in years, I have become less tolerent and now view dissent differently...or whether I've always viewed it this way, but the advancing years have made it more tiresome to endure......

For me, dissent, is anything that a participant says or does that is looking to undermine your confidence, match control, or dispute your decision. It's a wonderful offence that can be used to deal with the really annoying players that chip away at referees without necessarily swearing etc. When you get bored of hearing them, warn them once, twice if you're feeling really generous, then bang the lemon out.

Likewise if you have a player you know from past experience won't settle down until they are in the book....it's a handy offence to facilitate that.
Click to expand...

would you put 'trying to influence your decision' in the dissent category... i.e asking for a player to be booked / red carded ?
 
Think you've hit on a pretty fair description of the offence with your outline above. Onky two thoughts I would add are ...

1) Often the players aren't 'looking to' undermine your match control etc but their actions have that effect and therefore need to be treated in the same way
2) As on a previous thread, the more 'public' the player's actions are, the more likely they are to have the effect of undermining your match control and therefore IMO need to be treated even more firmly.

I'm still learning in this area. Last observation I was quite rightly picked up for allowing the away captain to be in my face too much after decisions against his team. After the first couple of times I should have warned him and then quickly cautioned him to stop the situation. Will know better next time ...!
 
Dissent is any comment or gesture which shows disagreement or disrespect.
We then choose to ignore 99% of it and only focus on particular types of the above.
 
Dissent
Public disagreement (verbal and/or physical) with a match official’s decision; punishable by a caution (yellow card)
Page 162

And if you caution every single one of them you will end up with less than 7 players for a team in the first 20 minutes.
 
one said:
Dissent
Public disagreement (verbal and/or physical) with a match official’s decision; punishable by a caution (yellow card)
Page 162

And if you caution every single one of them you will end up with less than 7 players for a team in the first 20 minutes.
Click to expand...

Key word there is "public"
 
one said:
Dissent
Public disagreement (verbal and/or physical) with a match official’s decision; punishable by a caution (yellow card)
Page 162

And if you caution every single one of them you will end up with less than 7 players for a team in the first 20 minutes.
Click to expand...
Not strictly true. After the first couple of reds surely they would learn...

Or maybe not
 
Always been a hot topic this, one mans ignore is another mans red line..

I'm not going to preach on what's right or wrong, it's down to you, how it was said, how it was received, what they said... react as you see fit....
 
Interesting topic, I went to watch my Son play this morning, Under 15's ( Blues v Reds )

Referee was aged about 19/20, match progressed and he was inconsistent in his decisions, both managers getting frustrated, however into the 2nd half... a red player misplaces a pass a swears in frustration, blues have broken and are on the edge of the box, ref whistles to stop play, takes it back to the blue 18 yard box, calls the red player in and books him for dissent, this was a 2nd yellow so lad was shown a red...

Ref ends up booking another 3 players who have sworn but in frustration rather than dissent towards the referee or his decisions..

At the end of the match the home manager said ' At least you only have to put up with him once, he's like this every week'

So is swearing in frustration dissent?? I would suggest not and if we booked every player that swears when they misplace a pass from U15 upwards County FA's will be very wealthy, however matches will be abandoned as they'll have less than 7 players aside
 
I keep hearing ''your a joke ref'' unless they keep saying it I don't take any action but I really think I should i'm not sure tho lol
 
"That is..." = dissent

"You're a ... " = potential offinabus/at least a caution for dissent.
 
Nimbleblade said:
Interesting topic, I went to watch my Son play this morning, Under 15's ( Blues v Reds )

Referee was aged about 19/20, match progressed and he was inconsistent in his decisions, both managers getting frustrated, however into the 2nd half... a red player misplaces a pass a swears in frustration, blues have broken and are on the edge of the box, ref whistles to stop play, takes it back to the blue 18 yard box, calls the red player in and books him for dissent, this was a 2nd yellow so lad was shown a red...

Ref ends up booking another 3 players who have sworn but in frustration rather than dissent towards the referee or his decisions..

At the end of the match the home manager said ' At least you only have to put up with him once, he's like this every week'

So is swearing in frustration dissent?? I would suggest not and if we booked every player that swears when they misplace a pass from U15 upwards County FA's will be very wealthy, however matches will be abandoned as they'll have less than 7 players aside
Click to expand...
Absolutely not. I couldn't give a flying fig about anything said in frustration that doesn't genuinely upset another player. I'll get involved if it causes an increase in tempers elsewhere or if someone else starts to become the target of the language, but that's it.
 
Danwilliams said:
I keep hearing ''your a joke ref'' unless they keep saying it I don't take any action but I really think I should i'm not sure tho lol
Click to expand...
You're a joke is a pretty bad comment and highly undermining - somewhat offensive as well being quite personal. That one's a card. Even if you don't want to card for it, at least a stern public word (but I think that's insufficient)

Nimbleblade said:
So is swearing in frustration dissent?? I would suggest not and if we booked every player that swears when they misplace a pass from U15 upwards County FA's will be very wealthy, however matches will be abandoned as they'll have less than 7 players aside
Click to expand...
Swearing in response to a decision is dissent, by the dictionary definition - but probably won't warrant attention (depending on the situation). Swearing over something that's happened like a bad pass cannot possibly be dissent. This is a referee who, for whatever reason, has decided that foul language is a USB caution.
 
For me appealing is not the same as dissent. There is a fine line between the two. "That was a foul ref" vs "that was a f**king foul ref". Or constant appeals. Where is that fine line for everyone else?
 
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Appeal - "Handball ref!"
Dissent - after you've made it clear that you're not giving it, "That was a handball ref"
We don't apply that level of tolerance - but that IS dissent, by the strict word definition.
 
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