A&H

West Ham v Olympiacos

L

ladbroke8745

RefChat Addict
The goal....

Was it really that close for offside?
I actually think it was an appalling call from the assistant to flag that. He wasn't in line, by a yard or so it seems, and surely he can still see the West Ham player is behind the defender.
 
The Referee Store
Ref plays advantage, looks like he signals it, for a foul on the edge/corner of the box for Olympiacos.
The ball, played by the player as he was fouled, goes to the left wing gets the ball and is flagged immediately for offside.
Surely this means that literally no advantage has been gained and a free kick to Olympiacos is the better option. So no free kick given, and offside is the restart, so they gain nothing.

And midway through added time, ball out for throw in. Balls gone beyond ball boy who throws the new ball at the touchline. Bowen subsequently kicks that ball back away from pitch. He has literally gone off the pitch to do so. Olympiacos player runs off the pitch to redeem and rightly protests abou the kicking of the ball away, thus delaying the restart.
Bowen eventually cautioned, but think it was more because of the confrontation that occured, as the Olympiacos player was cautioned too.
This took about 40 seconds to resolve, and calm down, and yet literally no seconds were added on top of the added 5. Ref blew dead on 5 minutes.
 
ladbroke8745 said:
Ref plays advantage, looks like he signals it, for a foul on the edge/corner of the box for Olympiacos.
The ball, played by the player as he was fouled, goes to the left wing gets the ball and is flagged immediately for offside.
Surely this means that literally no advantage has been gained and a free kick to Olympiacos is the better option. So no free kick given, and offside is the restart, so they gain nothing.
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I actually thought he signalled for the player to get up, indicating no foul...? Although they only showed it once and I wasn't really paying an awful lot of attention. :D
 
You are spot on with all 3 incidents

Not handled very well all round. Was an incredibly obvious offside too
 
The offside decision was incredibly poor, there is no way a FIFA referee should be getting that wrong. This plays into the VAR discussion though, without VAR this would have been debated to death and led to a call for technology to help the match officials. Hence the very circular argument, people don't like VAR but when things like this happen they want VAR.

I don't think he played advantage, he was signalling no foul and telling the player to get up, so once the offside flag goes up that is that.
 
santa sangria said:
Without Var the lino gets a bad observation and we all get on with our lives.
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Alas Santa, whilst the noise on VAR will keep ramping up because it won't work in general, the Assistant Referee's job is now permanently semi-retired and they'll never again have a say on key match offside situations
The best we can hope for in terms of VAR and offside, is that semi-automated (and AI within a decade) offside will mean we're not waiting endlessly for a decision that should be delivered very quickly
 
Big Cat said:
Alas Santa, whilst the noise on VAR will keep ramping up because it won't work in general, the Assistant Referee's job is now permanently semi-retired and they'll never again have a say on key match offside situations
The best we can hope for in terms of VAR and offside, is that semi-automated (and AI within a decade) offside will mean we're not waiting endlessly for a decision that should be delivered very quickly
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Can we just farm off big bucks televised Hunger Games football to a super league with all the tech bs (AI goalkeepers please!)?
 
santa sangria said:
Can we just farm off big bucks televised Hunger Games football to a super league with all the tech bs (AI goalkeepers please!)?
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Like @RustyRef said, the game will never go back to accepting factual errors like this errant flag. That doesn't mean it's a forlorn hope that other subjective stuff can reigned back (although IFAB/FIFA and the money men will likely never entertain that either)
 
Big Cat said:
Like @RustyRef said, the game will never go back to accepting factual errors like this errant flag. That doesn't mean it's a forlorn hope that other subjective stuff can reigned back (although IFAB/FIFA and the money men will likely never entertain that either)
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The head of IFAB was interviewed on White & Jordan this week and he was very clear it isn't going anywhere, but he did accept it was still a work in progress and might take until the end of the decade to get to an ideal position. They will just trot out the stats and they can't really be argued with, people were constantly moaning about officiating mistakes and VAR has improved that, but probably at some expense to the game as a spectacle. Across all leagues using it pre-VAR KMD decisions were 92% correct, now they are over 99% correct.

I do think people forget what it was like before VAR. With this horrendous mistake there would have been uproar and massive calls for technology, it really is a very circular argument.
 
RustyRef said:
The head of IFAB was interviewed on White & Jordan this week and he was very clear it isn't going anywhere, but he did accept it was still a work in progress and might take until the end of the decade to get to an ideal position. They will just trot out the stats and they can't really be argued with, people were constantly moaning about officiating mistakes and VAR has improved that, but probably at some expense to the game as a spectacle. Across all leagues using it pre-VAR KMD decisions were 92% correct, now they are over 99% correct.

I do think people forget what it was like before VAR. With this horrendous mistake there would have been uproar and massive calls for technology, it really is a very circular argument.
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Was refereeing really that bad and having that many MAJOR errors? Incidents like the Henry handball vs Ireland are rare.

People moaned about refereeing, but I don't think they argued about it this much before VAR
 
Runner-Ref said:
Was refereeing really that bad and having that many MAJOR errors? Incidents like the Henry handball vs Ireland are rare.

People moaned about refereeing, but I don't think they argued about it this much before VAR
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Think they did, but over the years the platform to moan has vastly increased, instead of just the stands/pub.
Decisions now stay in the spotlight for a lot longer. The ability to screen grab everything and turn them into memes to suit an agenda has increased tenfold, or should I say the amount of memes has increased tenfold.
People are dredging up the past far more, citing decisions from seasons before as to why something today shouldn't be given, despite law changes etc.

Players and managers are finding more, and new, ways to cheat that it can be difficult. But instead of cheating in the final third, they're doing it elsewhere on the pitch as normally final third is where something like a goal happens and no team wants to lose out on a goal.
On top of this, managers also keep going on and on in press conferences.
If I'm not mistaken, Arteta kept quiet when he benefitted from a decision that VAR missed, but was vocal when it was against. They forget all that when it's for them.
 
ladbroke8745 said:
Surely this means that literally no advantage has been gained and a free kick to Olympiacos is the better option.
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Once he signals for advantage, the new(ish) direction is that you do not pull it back. The signal indicates that the advantage is actualized, not that he's waiting to see if it will. So in this case, the problem is that the referee signaled advantage much too quickly instead of waiting to see if anything actually materialized.
 
RustyRef said:
The head of IFAB was interviewed on White & Jordan this week and he was very clear it isn't going anywhere, but he did accept it was still a work in progress and might take until the end of the decade to get to an ideal position. They will just trot out the stats and they can't really be argued with, people were constantly moaning about officiating mistakes and VAR has improved that, but probably at some expense to the game as a spectacle. Across all leagues using it pre-VAR KMD decisions were 92% correct, now they are over 99% correct.

I do think people forget what it was like before VAR. With this horrendous mistake there would have been uproar and massive calls for technology, it really is a very circular argument.
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TalkVAR!

Morning show: Var. Cundy: Var. s**** and Jordan: Var. It is such a car crash.

This morning the anchor said “maybe we can go a whole show without mentioning var”… lasted 30 seconds.

It will take a while for the media monitoring to work out that endless TalkVar is bad radio, as it is bad for news clicks, as it is bad at the stadium.

It’s race to the bottom stuff. Totally betrays the presenters’ - and worse, their producers’ - lack of creativity and lack of insight. Of course, insightful commentary that sparks debate is hard. I’d rather listen to transfer nonsense than this rubbish.

Confession - I used to work in radio and buy promos and sponsorships etc. - and the constant Var drivel is not a conducive editorial environment for revenue generation IMHO.

I can’t see the media owners sticking with this format of the protocol for various reasons.
 
santa sangria said:
TalkVAR!

Morning show: Var. Cundy: Var. s**** and Jordan: Var. It is such a car crash.

This morning the anchor said “maybe we can go a whole show without mentioning var”… lasted 30 seconds.

It will take a while for the media monitoring to work out that endless TalkVar is bad radio, as it is bad for news clicks, as it is bad at the stadium.

It’s race to the bottom stuff. Totally betrays the presenters’ - and worse, their producers’ - lack of creativity and lack of insight. Of course, insightful commentary that sparks debate is hard. I’d rather listen to transfer nonsense than this rubbish.

Confession - I used to work in radio and buy promos and sponsorships etc. - and the constant Var drivel is not a conducive editorial environment for revenue generation IMHO.

I can’t see the media owners sticking with this format of the protocol for various reasons.
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The ONLY predominant factor of all considerations that determine anything in football, are commercial by nature
 
Big Cat said:
The ONLY predominant factor of all considerations that determine anything in football, are commercial by nature.
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Exactly. And I get that Var has been clickbait crack for a couple of years.

And it’s better on TV because they can show goals.

There’s a sliding scale. I used to joke that the only thing more boring than footballers was footballers talking about football. But it turns out footballers talking about Var is much more boring.

I would not be surprised if a next iteration of broadcast footy is being hatched (in Zurich) with things like standardized review time outs to give a new angle to broadcast revenue. If someone turned around in 3 years and said “we just engineered that Var rubbish so that you’d swallow the new HGF…” again would not be a shock.

Boehly and the chaps want Hunger Games Footy in the Sphere!
 
Runner-Ref said:
Was refereeing really that bad and having that many MAJOR errors? Incidents like the Henry handball vs Ireland are rare.

People moaned about refereeing, but I don't think they argued about it this much before VAR
Click to expand...
Yes, it was just as bad. I can remember Sky drawing their own lines for the tightest of tight offsides and then showing it to the affected manager in the post match interview to get him to criticise the officials. Now they criticise these tight decisions and say it is ruining the game. They should slow down challenges to show there was contact high up the leg and say it should have been a red card, now they criticise slow-mo images being used by VAR.

It VAR was scrapped, and it never will be, the media would just go back to how they were before and within a couple of years would be demanding technology to fix the mistakes.

People must remember the Charlie Austin rant, wonder if he is now of an opinion that VAR is bad? ...
 
RustyRef said:
Yes, it was just as bad. I can remember Sky drawing their own lines for the tightest of tight offsides and then showing it to the affected manager in the post match interview to get him to criticise the officials. Now they criticise these tight decisions and say it is ruining the game. They should slow down challenges to show there was contact high up the leg and say it should have been a red card, now they criticise slow-mo images being used by VAR.

It VAR was scrapped, and it never will be, the media would just go back to how they were before and within a couple of years would be demanding technology to fix the mistakes.

People must remember the Charlie Austin rant, wonder if he is now of an opinion that VAR is bad? ...
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No good posting a single rant Rusty
We all know Refs will always be rubbish and we all know the game will always be Ref bashing. But we're National News every week now. Disrespect for us is at unprecedented levels. We're a laughing stock ON AND OFF the FOP instead of just on it. Poor decisions on the FOP eventually get swallowed. Terrible performance with the benefit of thinking time and 10 angles is many many times more indigestible

But who cares? As long as the money is flooding in, who gives a **** about how stupid we ALL look
Don't worry though, we've been in the teething stages for about 9 years now. Arguably, it's worse under Webb than it was under his joke of a predecessor

Scrap it completely.... go very dark for a few years... come back, give it another go.... we all know it's here to stay,... but FGS, give us a rest while they clean the canvas. I still think VARv2 would be a Horlicks, but at least it would have a chance of improvement
One things 100% for sure.... Keep doing the same thing expecting different results and you're absolutely mad
Tweaks and bright ideas will not quell the madness. International VAR is no better, although it may be better tolerated in some counties' bowels
 
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