The Ref Stop

Wengers/FIFA’s offside proposal

E

Eddie

Well-Known Member
Level 7 Referee
Apologies if this has been covered.


Apparently ‘Wengers’ offside proposal is to be trialled (in China, I think!?).

The jist of it is, if any part of the attackers body is in line with the defender, then he’s onside. The claims are this will stop VAR reviewing tight OS decisions by the mm.

Am I the only one who’s thinking it doesn’t resolve the issue at all and all you end up with is VAR STILL reviewing tight OS decisions by the mm, only it’s at the back end of the attacker instead of the front!?

It’s going to be far more difficult for amateur level officials too.
 
The Ref Stop
Eddie said:
Apologies if this has been covered.


Apparently ‘Wengers’ offside proposal is to be trialled (in China, I think!?).

The jist of it is, if any part of the attackers body is in line with the defender, then he’s onside. The claims are this will stop VAR reviewing tight OS decisions by the mm.

Am I the only one who’s thinking it doesn’t resolve the issue at all and all you end up with is VAR STILL reviewing tight OS decisions by the mm, only it’s at the back end of the attacker instead of the front!?

It’s going to be far more difficult for amateur level officials too.
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It doesn’t sort anything. it moves the line of debate elsewhere but the millimetre argument will still exist and It makes the decision more difficult for AR’s without VAR (so obviously they just care about the elite leagues).

basically in short, they want to benefit the striker with marginal decisions and not the defender because less people will complain if a marginal decision leads to a goal than preventing one
 
Think this will be easier for amateur officials myself.
But it won't be good for football. It will make it more defensive.
 
JamesL said:
Think this will be easier for amateur officials myself.
But it won't be good for football. It will make it more defensive.
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How so? I’m thinking of a free kick for example, with 14/15 men running into the box in the line. Ordinarily we fix onto the second last defender and anyone beyond them, offside. Now it’s a case of finding that defender and trying to check all the flailing limbs of the attacker to see what hasn’t gone beyond them. Unless I’m thinking wrong though?

and yes you’re right about attacking football. Teams will be reluctant to keep a high press/high line knowing that a quick attacker can essentially have the run on them
 
Eddie said:
Am I the only one who’s thinking it doesn’t resolve the issue at all and all you end up with is VAR STILL reviewing tight OS decisions by the mm, only it’s at the back end of the attacker instead of the front!?
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No - me as well. I’ve lost count of the number of times I’ve said this to people. All that changing OS does is shift the problem as you say.
 
I don’t think it makes it any easier on refs without VAR, except to the extent that its an incentive for teams to bunker as the new “line” gives attackers an advantage and makes a higher line much riskier. All in all I think it’s a really stupid idea.
 
QuaverRef said:
How so? I’m thinking of a free kick for example, with 14/15 men running into the box in the line. Ordinarily we fix onto the second last defender and anyone beyond them, offside. Now it’s a case of finding that defender and trying to check all the flailing limbs of the attacker to see what hasn’t gone beyond them. Unless I’m thinking wrong though?

and yes you’re right about attacking football. Teams will be reluctant to keep a high press/high line knowing that a quick attacker can essentially have the run on them
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You will be looking for daylight, effectively. No daylight, onside, easy.
 
while i agree it 'just shifts the problem' to a different focal point where VAR will draw its lines and come to mm decisions, it alleviates one of the main concerns fans/players/pundits etc have with offside at the moment. Being 'level' is no longer a thing and forwards are penalised for being fractionally in advance of the 2nd rearmost defender whilst not gaining any advantage by that tiny fraction and being in that position.
 
It might give offside a 'fairer feel' but I strongly agree that it just shifts the forensics line and that it's a worrying precedent to set rules to suit VAR
 
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For me it would be close to (and probably better to) removing offside altogether. Defenders don't want to give attackers a headstart so would drop lower and attacker go higher in turn. It would change the structure of the game. Any trial should run for at least two seasons to let mature new strategies teams would come up with so the impact it will have on the game can be assessed thoroughly.
 
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The issue on factual decisions is always going to be that there will be the really marginal instances and as many have already said you will simply move the decision to a different point.

Likewise when you factor in things like "margin of error" if that's 6 inches, then what happens when you have a call that is 6.1 inches?

Whatever changes may or may not come, don't let's think it's going to solve the problems. The genie is well and truly out of the bottle and anything other than completely scrapping the offside law or fundamentally altering how VAR is used is still going lead to hugely contentious decisions.
 
Justylove said:
The issue on factual decisions is always going to be that there will be the really marginal instances and as many have already said you will simply move the decision to a different point.

Likewise when you factor in things like "margin of error" if that's 6 inches, then what happens when you have a call that is 6.1 inches?

Whatever changes may or may not come, don't let's think it's going to solve the problems. The genie is well and truly out of the bottle and anything other than completely scrapping the offside law or fundamentally altering how VAR is used is still going lead to hugely contentious decisions.
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Exactly. All well and good saying ‘daylight’, well what happens when there’s potentially only 1mm of daylight, or 1mm level. The problem doesn’t go away.

I’ve said it on here before, but the MLS model is the best way of doing it. VAR reviews, Referee looks at the monitor, if it’s not obvious it’s offside within 5-10 seconds, then the AR hasn’t made a clear and obvious error and it’s onside.

You’d see far less debate around it IMO.
 
GraemeS said:
Which of course, is technically incorrect. It's possible to have daylight between player's upper bodies, but still have a crossover of legs which under this proposal would result in the player being onside.
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I was going to post exactly the same thing.

I think it is far easier to compare front body/feet parts than to compare a front to a back.

I guess for folks who love watching lots of passing at midfield while trying to break into a bunkered defense this would be a great change. . . .
 
socal lurker said:
I was going to post exactly the same thing.

I think it is far easier to compare front body/feet parts than to compare a front to a back.

I guess for folks who love watching lots of passing at midfield while trying to break into a bunkered defense this would be a great change. . . .
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I definitely think its bad for football in general. I made that point.
I also agree with others, that this moves an existing problem somewhere else. I just feel (personally) these calls will be easier to make. Okay so it's not exactly daylight, but the way I imagine this it would be easier to detect.
 
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