The Ref Stop

WBA / MANU - Juan Mata

xPositor

xPositor

RefChat Addict
Level 7 Referee
Juan Mata correctly received a second caution for his "tackle" on Darren Fletcher. BUT - should he already have been on a yellow card?
Distance
If a player decides to take a free kick quickly and an opponent who is less than 9.15 m (10 yds) from the ball intercepts it, the referee must allow play to continue.
If a player decides to take a free kick quickly and an opponent who is near the ball deliberately prevents him taking the kick, the referee must caution the player for delaying the restart of play.
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I think Juan Mata is guilty of the first point, not the second - he wasn't stood over the ball or similar preventing the kick being taken, he saw his opportunity when the kick was taken to stick his boot out and intercept it. Therefore play on, rather than the booking he received.
 
The Ref Stop
I don't think you'd ever get away with interpreting the law that way in any game.

Mata intentionally moved then jumped in the way to prevent a through ball. This wording is meant for instances where a player is located within 10 yds of the ball and the ball is kicked at him in error.
 
es1 said:
I don't think you'd ever get away with interpreting the law that way in any game.

Mata intentionally moved then jumped in the way to prevent a through ball. This wording is meant for instances where a player is located within 10 yds of the ball and the ball is kicked at him in error.
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+1

Absolutely nailed on yellow card for me. It wasn't a quickly-taken free kick either, which is also an integral part of the scenario for it not being a yellow card.
 
Can't believe there is a debate, two yellows. As for Van Gaal's rubbish about he not being that type of player, almost as stupid as Pardew's comment that penalties should not be given in the last minute.
 
This has brought back memories of a Boro game last year which I thought the ref got entirely wrong, but later a lot of people suggested he was right. Adam Reach went over to "stand on" a free kick, got the ball and Boro launched an attack. Here's the video - what do you think?

(edit - the embedding has broken the start time: it starts at 36m 13s)

 
HoofItYouDonkey said:
Can't believe there is a debate, two yellows. As for Van Gaal's rubbish about he not being that type of player, almost as stupid as Pardew's comment that penalties should not be given in the last minute.
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When folk come out with that "he's not that type of player" line, I wish the interviewer would respond with "But, he just did it..."
 
quizeye said:
This has brought back memories of a Boro game last year which I thought the ref got entirely wrong, but later a lot of people suggested he was right. Adam Reach went over to "stand on" a free kick, got the ball and Boro launched an attack. Here's the video - what do you think?
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Looks like that's exactly what the law intends to happen - if you take it so fast that players don't have time to get away that's on your head! Personally I don't like it, but I don't make the rules!
 
Funnily enough, I'm not sure about the second one as a yellow, though first one all day long.

Agree, too, that the one from Middlesbrough-Watford was fine and right to play on.
 
What's the difference between the two incidents in your view, frank? If I'm honest all I can see is a player sticking a leg out to intercept a quickly taken free kick, in both situations.
 
quizeye said:
What's the difference between the two incidents in your view, frank? If I'm honest all I can see is a player sticking a leg out to intercept a quickly taken free kick, in both situations.
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The Watford one it looks like the guy basically kicked the ball at him thinking it would get him into trouble, didn't really look to me like he was trying to play a pass. Middlesbrough player's mainly standing his ground (which he shouldn't do, of course, but there you go) and doesn't move his body towards the ball. There is, though, a movement of the leg - could be argued that it's reflexive - so I think the ref could very easily order a retake.

Mata, on the other hand, runs toward the ball, jumps, and sticks his leg out in an obvious bid to block the kick.

I can definitely see how the Middlesbrough player could have been penalised for that. I think if I'm reffing that situation, though, I'm thinking the taker knows exactly what he's doing and it's his tough luck that he tried to be cute rather than waiting a second or two. If he tries to play what I believe is a genuine quick free kick and pass to a team-mate then fair enough, but really doesn't look like that to me.
 
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"If I'm honest all I can see is a player sticking a leg out to intercept a quickly taken free kick, in both situations."

I don't see that in both, only one.

In one case (Watford vs Boro) you have a player choosing to take a quick free kick despite the obvious presence of an opponent who has hardly had enough time to move out the way, in the other case (WBA vs Man U) you have a player taking a free kick with no opponent in an obvious position to intercept, only for that opponent to move in and block the kick at the last moment.
 
In the wat v boro the defnder has made attempt to retreat then sticks his leg out to block.
Not as obvious as Mata's but a caution certianly.
A team will get one warning from me about "standing on it" at free kicks before I start cautioning (rare I have to). Too many parks refs allow defenders to stand on the ball until his team are ready. Er, no, that's not fair folks!!
 
I think the Boro one is slightly deceptive in that the replay starts after the player (Reach) has moved towards the free kick to stand in front of it first. If you go back to 35:35 there's about ten seconds between the award of the free kick and the noise suggesting something has happened, during which time Reach (20) has walked back and stood in front of the ball.

I, erm, forgot to mention that Reach had already been cautioned earlier in the game
 
I was getting annoyed yesterday, and had to warn a player, as on every free kick to the opposition he would be right on the ball, to then start very slowly pacing out the 10 yards. He was politely told that if he did it again I would treat it as delaying the restart and he'd be booked for it.
 
xPositor said:
I was getting annoyed yesterday, and had to warn a player, as on every free kick to the opposition he would be right on the ball, to then start very slowly pacing out the 10 yards. He was politely told that if he did it again I would treat it as delaying the restart and he'd be booked for it.
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I'd have cautioned the minute he thought it was acceptable behaviour to pace 10 yards. Nobody undermines me like that.

xPositor said:
Juan Mata correctly received a second caution for his "tackle" on Darren Fletcher. BUT - should he already have been on a yellow card?

I think Juan Mata is guilty of the first point, not the second - he wasn't stood over the ball or similar preventing the kick being taken, he saw his opportunity when the kick was taken to stick his boot out and intercept it. Therefore play on, rather than the booking he received.
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You must be a Manchester United Fan? Particularly given your proximity to London?
 
Gotcha.

I was watching it real-time, at the time of the first I said out loud to myself it was a stupid caution so early in the game, and when he made the second challenge we all knew what was happening next...

I thought from his petulance for the first caution and reaction to it he'd lost his head. Never seen him appear so frustrated. Serves them right.
 
dm1983 said:
When folk come out with that "he's not that type of player" line, I wish the interviewer would respond with "But, he just did it..."
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Surely there has to be a first time, and the first time any manager could trot out this line.

The second time he's got form.
 
It shouldn't be pot luck whether you lose possession or get the opponent booked by booting a FK at a player who is delaying the restart. Yet it is.
 
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