A&H

VAR - An Unconscious Bias?

Joshref

Well-Known Member
Waffling

Last year, in both the media and on this forum, there was a heavy suggestion that referees were not giving the correct call and relying on VAR. From an exact point of view, that is technically the point of VAR, to make up in case referees make mistakes. However it was more of a suggestion that referees were not giving obvious red cards and penalties, instead relying on VAR to make the call for these KMIs. There was argument what caused this. Was this was a Mike Riley directive, don't make any risky calls to put the entertainment of the game into jeopardy? Was it all a bunch of media rubbish, that there was nothing occurring and it was just confirmation bias (people only noticed when VAR awarded the red and not when refs awarded it.) Or was there an unconscious bias. After all, refs tend to only give reds and penalties if they are 100% sure,, due to the game changing nature of these calls, so could a ref not be sure and think "well if I'm wrong VAR will help."

I've always liked stats so when this argument came up for the five millionth time on a thread last year, I posted some stats to see if there was any truth to this thinking. The stats backed up the idea, as less red cards and penalties were awarded on the field after VAR than it was pre VAR. But stats cannot always tell a story, and the argument could have been made that players were getting better behaved and we would not be able to tell for certain unless the exact same games were played. The argument stopped and whilst I was sat bored in my uni library procrastinating I realised I hadn't heard that argument in a long time, had this "effect" stopped. I did the stats midway through last season so added this seasons stats and last season's to see if there is any truth to the idea that refs gave less reds and penalties on field than before VAR.

So instead of starting on my uni essay I looked at the Ribena bottle from my meal deal and realised the company was based at Stockley Park, just like our good friend VAR. I decided to do what any sane person would and write an essay on VAR for a referee forum instead. Feel free to agree, disagree or completely ignore and wonder what on earth I was thinking writing this, but I just wanted to get my thoughts and results at. I will add the disclaimer that the red card stats do not take into account those given as second yellows which seeing as they aren't affected by VAR means these stats aren't entirely true. I couldn't easily find the data and seeing as this isn't a dissertation I didn't go to my maximum effort to find those stats. I will also disclaim that I often refer to things as "given by VAR." I am not an idiot I understand VAR isnt some magic machine that overturns ref calls and that it is still the referee team who decide, its just easier to refer to it that way. But anyway, here are the stats.

Stats

I looked at the three seasons before VAR for my control data. On average 42.3 red cards were given (range 39-47) and 96.3 penalties (range 80-106) were awarded per season.

In 19-20, 44 red cards were awarded. Only 38 were awarded by the on field ref, with 3 of those overturned and 9 given by VAR. In 20-21, 47 red cards were awarded, with just 32 awarded by the on field ref, 2 overturned by VAR and 17 awarded by VAR. In 21-22, 42 red cards were awarded, with 32 awarded by the on field ref, 3 overturned, and 13 awarded by VAR.

So in total, 44.3 red cards have been shown on average in the 3 full seasons since VAR was introduced. This is relatively similar to the pre VAR average and falls into the range. The amount of red cards shown in the 3 seasons also falls into the range. However, in all 3 seasons, the amount of red cards shown on field is below the range, as is the average shown of 34. This data seems to indicate that referees were giving less red cards than they were before the introduction of VAR, despite the fact that with VAR the amount of red cards shown is similar to pre VAR. This helps the idea that referees were relying on VAR as a safety net. As does the fact that only 8 red cards were overturned by VAR in those 3 seasons, compared to 39 that VAR gave a red card to. Overall in the 149 red card situations, the referee was determined to have made a CLEAR AND OBVIOUS error in 31.5% of them.

As for penalties, in 19-20, 92 were awarded, with 77 awarded on the field, 7 overturned and 22 given by VAR. In 20-21, 124 penalties were awarded, with 117 penalties given on field, 22 of those overturned, and 29 of those given by VAR. In 21-22, 103 penalties were awarded, with 74 awarded on the field, 9 overturned, and 38 given by VAR.

The apparently insane penalty year of 20-21 hurts the ability to take findings here. Our average is 106.3 penalties awarded, which is higher than our range showing more penalties have been awarded since the introduction of VAR. Barring 20-21 which is above the range, the other two seasons all fall into the range as well. In 19-20 and 21-22 the amount of penalties awarded on field was below average and below the range, but this wasn't the case in 21-22, which actually saw more given. The average on field penalties awarded was 89.3 which is still below our average, but makes it hard to draw a complete conclusion as it is still in the range. Overall we have 408 penalty situations here, with the referee determined to have made a CLEAR AND OBVIOUS error in 31.1% of them. 38 penalties were overturned and 89 given by VAR

With 3 seasons of pre VAR and 3 seasons of post VAR, what can we conclude. The average amount of red cards and penalties shown on field has been less in the VAR seasons than it was pre VAR. With VAR however, the numbers are relatively similar, perhaps suggesting it is not a case of players getting better behaved. With penalties its harder to conclude due to the average still falling into the range, but with red cards the data is clear. Also the amount of penalties and red cards given by VAR is much much higher than the amount of penalties and red cards overturned by VAR. To play devils advocate I will argue both sides. In theory you would expect the numbers to be similar as refs should make an equal number of clear and obvious errors on both sides. The fact they don't suggests they are relying on a VAR safety net. However, as said earlier, refs will give pens and red cards if they are 100% certain, so it makes sense that they would be unlikely to make a clear and obvious error when awarding one. The other factor to look at is the high amount of CLEAR AND OBVIOUS errors made by the ref, not just mistakes, but clear and obvious ones. However of course the data does not look at every time a player goes down in the box and the ref waves it off and is backed by VAR, so the actual number will be lower, although VAR being involved to such a high extent is still concerning.

However, this argument has been less heard this season, so have things changed? There have been 231/380 games played this season, and we have seen 19 red cards and 52 penalties. This puts us on track for 31.3 red cards and 85.5 penalties for the season. The first thing to conclude would be the large reduction in red cards compared to previous seasons, and the fact the penalties awarded is less than what we have seen. However looking at the VAR stats, 17 red cards on field were awarded by refs, with 2 overturned and 4 given by VAR and of the penalties, 44 pens were given on field, with 9 overturned and 17 given by VAR. The difference between overturned and given is definitely less but its hard to actually draw conclusions without the full season and frankly, I am now questioning why I have wasted a good hour of my life on this.

Discuss what you want, ignore it, question my life choices idc, just thought these stats were interesting.
 
The Referee Store
I always thought and still think VAR can be a brilliant support tool for referees... if used correctly.

Unfortunately the FA/PL are so wrapped up with their protocols they continue to make themselves and the referees using it look incompetent and stupid.

The Villa Vs Sheffield United GLT failure and VARs inability to intervene "due to protocols etc" despite it being blatantly obvious to everyone watching the ball had crossed the line highlighted just how flawed the use of VAR is!
 
I'm not sure when TMO came into rugby (Television Match Official), but I can't imagine it faced the same extent of problems and criticism. Right now, it feels like we're beyond justifiying it (VAR) as teething issues.

Referees have spent multiple seasons with he technology, and as a result, their behaviour will 100% change, and I doubt there's any directive to officiate differently, the opposite honestly, but I would say that as referees, would we not feel encouraged to edge on the side of 'caution', knowing if we bollocked it up, someone will be in our ear to let us know?

Just a thought
 
Waffling

Discuss what you want, ignore it, question my life choices idc, just thought these stats were interesting.

Massive respect for your mega waffle and well done. No secret I don't like VAR so it's refreshing to see an attempt at the cold hard facts. My thoughts:

31.5% clear and obvious errors in straight red card decisions in the 3 seasons since VAR was introduced is a disaster. And it is easy to point to that and say that VAR is absolutely essential.

The red card stats would be more hard hitting if you could analyze Violent Conduct red cards and, for example, remove them from the equation. My guess is that the number of VC cards has fallen off a cliff in the last three seasons - so I will further guess that other reds might have crept up until this season.

The red card drop this season so far is a surprise - but I will guess that it is following a similar (but probably much bigger ) drop off in yellow card numbers - because the threshold for cards has been moved so much this season.

My conclusion is (still) that a few toenail offsides, the odd red card, a few dozen penalties either way, and a mistake in law (or wrong identity) once in a blue moon, do not at all justify the expense, retraining, loss of refs from the field and emotionally bereft grim spectacle that VAR brings (takes) from the game.
 
Massive respect for your mega waffle and well done. No secret I don't like VAR so it's refreshing to see an attempt at the cold hard facts. My thoughts:

31.5% clear and obvious errors in straight red card decisions in the 3 seasons since VAR was introduced is a disaster. And it is easy to point to that and say that VAR is absolutely essential.

The red card stats would be more hard hitting if you could analyze Violent Conduct red cards and, for example, remove them from the equation. My guess is that the number of VC cards has fallen off a cliff in the last three seasons - so I will further guess that other reds might have crept up until this season.

The red card drop this season so far is a surprise - but I will guess that it is following a similar (but probably much bigger ) drop off in yellow card numbers - because the threshold for cards has been moved so much this season.

My conclusion is (still) that a few toenail offsides, the odd red card, a few dozen penalties either way, and a mistake in law (or wrong identity) once in a blue moon, do not at all justify the expense, retraining, loss of refs from the field and emotionally bereft grim spectacle that VAR brings (takes) from the game.
Considering the difference the VAR made in the World Cup I am surprised that the decisions by referees and VAR has been so low this season.

We can see just by looking at the Premiership this weekend how poor VAR decisions are being made and also the lack of decisions by the on field referees (see Burns foul on Salah in front of the assistant referee and the lazy but dangerous foul on the Leicester player by the Utd midfielder) where referees have not made a decision (for reasons unknown) and VAR hasn't brought it back.

To me we have a confusing Clear and Obvious error rule that seems to suit no-one in case it undermines the onfield referee and then we get VAR getting decisions wrong when the process should be bloody simple (see Lee Masons screwup).

At the moment the Referee situation is looking like an all time low and I hope the PGMOL can get its sorted asap or otherwise all us in the lower leagues are going to pay for it.
 
Waffling

Last year, in both the media and on this forum, there was a heavy suggestion that referees were not giving the correct call and relying on VAR. From an exact point of view, that is technically the point of VAR, to make up in case referees make mistakes. However it was more of a suggestion that referees were not giving obvious red cards and penalties, instead relying on VAR to make the call for these KMIs. There was argument what caused this. Was this was a Mike Riley directive, don't make any risky calls to put the entertainment of the game into jeopardy? Was it all a bunch of media rubbish, that there was nothing occurring and it was just confirmation bias (people only noticed when VAR awarded the red and not when refs awarded it.) Or was there an unconscious bias. After all, refs tend to only give reds and penalties if they are 100% sure,, due to the game changing nature of these calls, so could a ref not be sure and think "well if I'm wrong VAR will help."

I've always liked stats so when this argument came up for the five millionth time on a thread last year, I posted some stats to see if there was any truth to this thinking. The stats backed up the idea, as less red cards and penalties were awarded on the field after VAR than it was pre VAR. But stats cannot always tell a story, and the argument could have been made that players were getting better behaved and we would not be able to tell for certain unless the exact same games were played. The argument stopped and whilst I was sat bored in my uni library procrastinating I realised I hadn't heard that argument in a long time, had this "effect" stopped. I did the stats midway through last season so added this seasons stats and last season's to see if there is any truth to the idea that refs gave less reds and penalties on field than before VAR.

So instead of starting on my uni essay I looked at the Ribena bottle from my meal deal and realised the company was based at Stockley Park, just like our good friend VAR. I decided to do what any sane person would and write an essay on VAR for a referee forum instead. Feel free to agree, disagree or completely ignore and wonder what on earth I was thinking writing this, but I just wanted to get my thoughts and results at. I will add the disclaimer that the red card stats do not take into account those given as second yellows which seeing as they aren't affected by VAR means these stats aren't entirely true. I couldn't easily find the data and seeing as this isn't a dissertation I didn't go to my maximum effort to find those stats. I will also disclaim that I often refer to things as "given by VAR." I am not an idiot I understand VAR isnt some magic machine that overturns ref calls and that it is still the referee team who decide, its just easier to refer to it that way. But anyway, here are the stats.

Stats

I looked at the three seasons before VAR for my control data. On average 42.3 red cards were given (range 39-47) and 96.3 penalties (range 80-106) were awarded per season.

In 19-20, 44 red cards were awarded. Only 38 were awarded by the on field ref, with 3 of those overturned and 9 given by VAR. In 20-21, 47 red cards were awarded, with just 32 awarded by the on field ref, 2 overturned by VAR and 17 awarded by VAR. In 21-22, 42 red cards were awarded, with 32 awarded by the on field ref, 3 overturned, and 13 awarded by VAR.

So in total, 44.3 red cards have been shown on average in the 3 full seasons since VAR was introduced. This is relatively similar to the pre VAR average and falls into the range. The amount of red cards shown in the 3 seasons also falls into the range. However, in all 3 seasons, the amount of red cards shown on field is below the range, as is the average shown of 34. This data seems to indicate that referees were giving less red cards than they were before the introduction of VAR, despite the fact that with VAR the amount of red cards shown is similar to pre VAR. This helps the idea that referees were relying on VAR as a safety net. As does the fact that only 8 red cards were overturned by VAR in those 3 seasons, compared to 39 that VAR gave a red card to. Overall in the 149 red card situations, the referee was determined to have made a CLEAR AND OBVIOUS error in 31.5% of them.

As for penalties, in 19-20, 92 were awarded, with 77 awarded on the field, 7 overturned and 22 given by VAR. In 20-21, 124 penalties were awarded, with 117 penalties given on field, 22 of those overturned, and 29 of those given by VAR. In 21-22, 103 penalties were awarded, with 74 awarded on the field, 9 overturned, and 38 given by VAR.

The apparently insane penalty year of 20-21 hurts the ability to take findings here. Our average is 106.3 penalties awarded, which is higher than our range showing more penalties have been awarded since the introduction of VAR. Barring 20-21 which is above the range, the other two seasons all fall into the range as well. In 19-20 and 21-22 the amount of penalties awarded on field was below average and below the range, but this wasn't the case in 21-22, which actually saw more given. The average on field penalties awarded was 89.3 which is still below our average, but makes it hard to draw a complete conclusion as it is still in the range. Overall we have 408 penalty situations here, with the referee determined to have made a CLEAR AND OBVIOUS error in 31.1% of them. 38 penalties were overturned and 89 given by VAR

With 3 seasons of pre VAR and 3 seasons of post VAR, what can we conclude. The average amount of red cards and penalties shown on field has been less in the VAR seasons than it was pre VAR. With VAR however, the numbers are relatively similar, perhaps suggesting it is not a case of players getting better behaved. With penalties its harder to conclude due to the average still falling into the range, but with red cards the data is clear. Also the amount of penalties and red cards given by VAR is much much higher than the amount of penalties and red cards overturned by VAR. To play devils advocate I will argue both sides. In theory you would expect the numbers to be similar as refs should make an equal number of clear and obvious errors on both sides. The fact they don't suggests they are relying on a VAR safety net. However, as said earlier, refs will give pens and red cards if they are 100% certain, so it makes sense that they would be unlikely to make a clear and obvious error when awarding one. The other factor to look at is the high amount of CLEAR AND OBVIOUS errors made by the ref, not just mistakes, but clear and obvious ones. However of course the data does not look at every time a player goes down in the box and the ref waves it off and is backed by VAR, so the actual number will be lower, although VAR being involved to such a high extent is still concerning.

However, this argument has been less heard this season, so have things changed? There have been 231/380 games played this season, and we have seen 19 red cards and 52 penalties. This puts us on track for 31.3 red cards and 85.5 penalties for the season. The first thing to conclude would be the large reduction in red cards compared to previous seasons, and the fact the penalties awarded is less than what we have seen. However looking at the VAR stats, 17 red cards on field were awarded by refs, with 2 overturned and 4 given by VAR and of the penalties, 44 pens were given on field, with 9 overturned and 17 given by VAR. The difference between overturned and given is definitely less but its hard to actually draw conclusions without the full season and frankly, I am now questioning why I have wasted a good hour of my life on this.

Discuss what you want, ignore it, question my life choices idc, just thought these stats were interesting.
Also, on stats - they can of course be used to prove anything if used in the wrong way but they can also provide valuable insights into how the game works and just not by the view you get from watching the match.

An example could be (and yes I'm a Liverpool supporter so this can be taken with a pinch of salt), Salah gets fouled every 120mins whereas Grealish gets one every 20mins. Now I appreciate that City probably spend a bit more time with the ball than Liverpool but considering Liverpool are second in the number of touches in the box this season to City its quite the disparity when someone like him rarely ever gets a foul.
 
With the Spurs / Brighton debacle covered elsewhere, I just wanted to ask why VAR delayed the restart (Saints v City) to check that Grealish (foreground) was not offside. Really?

1681075429359.jpeg
 
Thought exactly the same.

Wondered whether they're being told to double check everything to make sure they're not missing anything, although not sure that's worked too well...
 
With the Spurs / Brighton debacle covered elsewhere, I just wanted to ask why VAR delayed the restart (Saints v City) to check that Grealish (foreground) was not offside. Really?

View attachment 6510
Because they check every goal, yes 100% of them, to make sure there is no offside. Yet again you turn it into an anti-Man City thing, whereas it is just how VAR works.
 
I think the analysis on red cards is worth discussing as the laws surrounding RC have been pretty constant, but the PK count not. The handling offence law has changed so much in the period to one where only the Monty Python black Knight could avoid giving a PK in some instances that comparative stats are worthless.
Better than a lot of time I spent in Uni libraries back in the paleolithic though!
 
Because they check every goal, yes 100% of them, to make sure there is no offside. Yet again you turn it into an anti-Man City thing, whereas it is just how VAR works.
An anti-City thing? That's your inference. If you only see highlights, it's only live (including on TV) that delays for the decision become obvious. Of course they check every goal, but what is there to check here?

Did VAR really have to get the lines out to prove this was onside? Even with a ruler against the screen (taking the pitch mowing swathes as 6 yards apart) Grealish's feet are two yards behind the defender's foot. The City TV commentator said he could see a line that was tight, but that just seems impossible from the still they finally showed. I know the eye can deceive because of perspective, but if anyone can imagine a line that makes this "close" I'll happily eat my words.
 
An anti-City thing? That's your inference. If you only see highlights, it's only live (including on TV) that delays for the decision become obvious. Of course they check every goal, but what is there to check here?

Did VAR really have to get the lines out to prove this was onside? Even with a ruler against the screen (taking the pitch mowing swathes as 6 yards apart) Grealish's feet are two yards behind the defender's foot. The City TV commentator said he could see a line that was tight, but that just seems impossible from the still they finally showed. I know the eye can deceive because of perspective, but if anyone can imagine a line that makes this "close" I'll happily eat my words.
@RustyRef is gently pointing out that you come on here to offer a view about Manchester City games, but you wouldn't have bothered to comment if the still had been from a game in which City were not involved.
 
I've commented on lots of stuff nowt to do with City but obviously I see more of stuff involving City.

I'd never be off here if it was just moaning about injustice (Haaland booked for being fouled on Saturday).

Just look at the incident and tell me how VAR thought it worth checking for offside.
 
I've commented on lots of stuff nowt to do with City but obviously I see more of stuff involving City.

I'd never be off here if it was just moaning about injustice (Haaland booked for being fouled on Saturday).

Just look at the incident and tell me how VAR thought it worth checking for offside.
Possibly because, as @RustyRef has already advised you, VAR check every goal(?)
 
I've commented on lots of stuff nowt to do with City but obviously I see more of stuff involving City.

I'd never be off here if it was just moaning about injustice (Haaland booked for being fouled on Saturday).

Just look at the incident and tell me how VAR thought it worth checking for offside.
LOL, you can't help yourself. In posting saying that you don't make everything about Man City you've posted yet another unrelated incident, this time with Haaland.

As I answered, which you seem to be ignoring, VAR check for offside on every single goal scored.
 
LOL, you can't help yourself. In posting saying that you don't make everything about Man City you've posted yet another unrelated incident, this time with Haaland.

As I answered, which you seem to be ignoring, VAR check for offside on every single goal scored.
But they don't always announce that they're "Checking Offside". Presumably they can look at a still of the moment and think "no way that's offside". If they're checking for a player's body or head in front of an opponent's feet, they must have some idea of what's geometrically possible.

Would you as VAR have delayed a restart to start drawing lines for that incident?
 
But they don't always announce that they're "Checking Offside". Presumably they can look at a still of the moment and think "no way that's offside". If they're checking for a player's body or head in front of an opponent's feet, they must have some idea of what's geometrically possible.

Would you as VAR have delayed a restart to start drawing lines for that incident?

There is a process to follow. When people skip steps because it’s “obvious” we get (more) mistakes.

For example there was an incident in the FA Cup the other year where Sian Massey-Ellis didn’t flag what looked an obvious offside (according to commentary and stills from the broadcast angle) but the BBC drew lines as this was a game without VAR and proved her to be correct. The point being camera angles can be deceiving.

If the issue is them taking too long then fair, but given the multitude of issues VAR has had where process doesn’t seem to be followed correctly would we rather see a slightly longer obvious process or even more rushed poor decisions.
 
There is a process to follow. When people skip steps because it’s “obvious” we get (more) mistakes.

For example there was an incident in the FA Cup the other year where Sian Massey-Ellis didn’t flag what looked an obvious offside (according to commentary and stills from the broadcast angle) but the BBC drew lines as this was a game without VAR and proved her to be correct. The point being camera angles can be deceiving.

If the issue is them taking too long then fair, but given the multitude of issues VAR has had where process doesn’t seem to be followed correctly would we rather see a slightly longer obvious process or even more rushed poor decisions.
I suspect Sian made fewer offside mistakes than VAR!
 
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