RefSix

Unannounced Assessment

#22
How many of us have ever actually seen illegal footwear?

My checks are to glance across the top of the shoes--pretty obvious they are soccer shoes, and I'm done. (I may make a joke about no one wearing baseball spikes.) I suppose I also have the advantage in looking at shoes that no one wears screw-ins in Southern California. (I assume they are still a thing in places that actually play on wet fields? Pretty much no grass fields down here permit play when it rains in order to protect the fields.)
 

zarathustra

RefChat Addict
#23
How many of us have ever actually seen illegal footwear?

My checks are to glance across the top of the shoes--pretty obvious they are soccer shoes, and I'm done. (I may make a joke about no one wearing baseball spikes.) I suppose I also have the advantage in looking at shoes that no one wears screw-ins in Southern California. (I assume they are still a thing in places that actually play on wet fields? Pretty much no grass fields down here permit play when it rains in order to protect the fields.)
There's no such thing as illegal footwear, the laws just say that players have to wear footwear, and that any equipment a player wears must be safe.

All I look for is any obvious damage to the studs/blades that could pose a risk to an opponent.
 
#24
There's no such thing as illegal footwear, the laws just say that players have to wear footwear, and that any equipment a player wears must be safe.

All I look for is any obvious damage to the studs/blades that could pose a risk to an opponent.
Erm. Yeah. Not being safe would be, err, illegal . . . that's my point . . . and I've never seen it (though more likely with screw ins that can wear down to the metal)

(Used to be that the laws actually had details on what the studs/bars could be, but those are long gone . . .never saw a violation back then, either)
 

Brian Hamilton

I am the storm
Observer/Tutor
#25
How many of us have ever actually seen illegal footwear?

My checks are to glance across the top of the shoes--pretty obvious they are soccer shoes, and I'm done. (I may make a joke about no one wearing baseball spikes.) I suppose I also have the advantage in looking at shoes that no one wears screw-ins in Southern California. (I assume they are still a thing in places that actually play on wet fields? Pretty much no grass fields down here permit play when it rains in order to protect the fields.)
I've seen quite a few in my time, must be the area in which I work. I don't often see £200 Adidas boots or Puma Kings. I've seen plastic blades (cleats) worn down to the metal and I've seen screw-in studs missing so affecting balance
 

markref

Well-Known Member
#26
Same here. I’ve seen players sharpening metal blades on the concrete outside the dressing room by scraping them to knock mud off before the game! I’ve seen badly gouged screw in studs that were razor sharp. But one of the worst injuries I’ve seen were caused by brand new Predators with metal blades.
 

Big Cat

RefChat Addict
#27
£200 Adidas boots or Puma Kings
Other brands are available...
This boils down to a personality trait of mine whereby i'm flippant about risk which i perceive to be very low. I'm not as polarised as my posts make out, but that's nothing unusual WRT forum posting. At the same time, i set high standards for myself so this is a bullet which needs biting
Same here. I’ve seen players sharpening metal blades on the concrete outside the dressing room by scraping them to knock mud off before the game! I’ve seen badly gouged screw in studs that were razor sharp. But one of the worst injuries I’ve seen were caused by brand new Predators with metal blades.
Blimey Mark... where the hell do you ref? Scotland? Wales? Or some other developing country?
 

Brian Hamilton

I am the storm
Observer/Tutor
#28
Other brands are available...
This boils down to a personality trait of mine whereby i'm flippant about risk which i perceive to be very low. I'm not as polarised as my posts make out, but that's nothing unusual WRT forum posting. At the same time, i set high standards for myself so this is a bullet which needs biting

Blimey Mark... where the hell do you ref? Scotland? Wales? Or some other developing country?
Risk is a funny thing. No one is too bothered until it bites them on the bum. It's horrible when it catches you out. Sharpening blades on concrete or gravel was thing around here for while too
 

zarathustra

RefChat Addict
#29
I remember when I was at school they banned metal studs for football and rugby as people had been sharpening the edges of their studs to cause injuries to their opponents.
 
#32
I don't know what is wrong with an unannounced observation. We have them here all the time--in fact, we rarely know before the fact that we will be assessed. Nevertheless, this should change in no way your performance on or off the pitch on the day of.
 

Tealeaf

Lighting the darkest hour
Staff member
#33
I can beat that, I didn’t know I was being observed till the observation sheet landed on my doorstep a week later
I’ve had exactly this. I was ‘observed’ from the clubhouse. According to the home club that’s where he stayed all game before scarpering straight after the whistle.
 
#34
The only thing unfair about unannounced assessments, is that it's seemingly common practice in some areas but not others. My preference is for unannounced (because this lends itself to better refereeing standards throughout the season), but it should be the same for everyone
 

Kes

I'll Decide ...
#35
I don't know what is wrong with an unannounced observation. We have them here all the time--in fact, we rarely know before the fact that we will be assessed. Nevertheless, this should change in no way your performance on or off the pitch on the day of.
Fact is, in the UK, Level 4 and above are being observed quite frequently in order that they can either be promoted further or even demoted. At that level and above it's not a personal choice. At levels 7, 6 and 5 "going for promotion" is a conscious choice made by the referee prior to the promotion season which necessitates having a mandatory number of observations arranged by their County FA. Unless a promotion volunteer, you won't ever get somebody observing you (unless your County FA or league have other good cause to arrange it ie consistently poor club marks etc).
With that in mind, it's only right and proper (in my opinion of course) that a referee is forewarned of any Observer present at their match. It gives the referee added focus to do everything in his power to get stuff right (both before and during the game). A match can throw up enough random crap to deal with on it's own without somebody just turning up one day to shine a spotlight on you. If you're going for promotion then you want to certainly "look" your best, even if events on the day conspire to make it a nightmare for you.
I get the whole "you should always be at your best" argument but to be honest, an observer isn't there to catch referees out on a bad day. I just think it's basic manners to do what most do.
 
#36
My preference is for unannounced (because this lends itself to better refereeing standards throughout the season), but it should be the same for everyone
I just had one and you might like this;

I asked post-match about the infamous 'game management' advice, as I ran into it this season from other referees.

Advice was to ignore the typical 'game management' spiel and just hand out the cards when and where you need them. Apparently there were two cautions I could have gone for in this match that I didn't do, fortunately, no affect on the mark.

I'm going back to being the local Mike Dean and handing them out at my usual 4 per game until an observer tells me otherwise! :p
 
#37
I just had one and you might like this;

I asked post-match about the infamous 'game management' advice, as I ran into it this season from other referees.

Advice was to ignore the typical 'game management' spiel and just hand out the cards when and where you need them. Apparently there were two cautions I could have gone for in this match that I didn't do, fortunately, no affect on the mark.

I'm going back to being the local Mike Dean and handing them out at my usual 4 per game until an observer tells me otherwise! :p
Well, I've learned from only two assessments that observers say different things. I've been given a positional development point which I enacted in my second assessment, only to be given my preferred (original) positional method as a development point in my second assessment. My esteemed mentor @Russell Jones has come to the rescue, suggesting I should do both and tick all boxes :confused:
Maybe @Mintyref 's preferred method of running round in circles (10 yard radius) is the ticket!
 
#38
Fact is, in the UK, Level 4 and above are being observed quite frequently in order that they can either be promoted further or even demoted. At that level and above it's not a personal choice. At levels 7, 6 and 5 "going for promotion" is a conscious choice made by the referee prior to the promotion season which necessitates having a mandatory number of observations arranged by their County FA. Unless a promotion volunteer, you won't ever get somebody observing you (unless your County FA or league have other good cause to arrange it ie consistently poor club marks etc).
With that in mind, it's only right and proper (in my opinion of course) that a referee is forewarned of any Observer present at their match. It gives the referee added focus to do everything in his power to get stuff right (both before and during the game). A match can throw up enough random crap to deal with on it's own without somebody just turning up one day to shine a spotlight on you. If you're going for promotion then you want to certainly "look" your best, even if events on the day conspire to make it a nightmare for you.
I get the whole "you should always be at your best" argument but to be honest, an observer isn't there to catch referees out on a bad day. I just think it's basic manners to do what most do.
The problem being that your focus is affected by the presence of an assessor.
 
#39
Well, I've learned from only two assessments that observers say different things. I've been given a positional development point which I enacted in my second assessment, only to be given my preferred (original) positional method as a development point in my second assessment.
Hmm, yes I've come across that sometimes for trivial issues but not for something as important as positioning.

In your case, why don't you go to the RDO and ask for his thoughts on the matter? He should be made aware of conflicting advice anyway and he should offer clarity on the matter as it will be a development issue for you. I did this myself last season on some issues and the clarification was excellent for allowing me to kick on without dwelling too much on it.
 
#40
Hmm, yes I've come across that sometimes for trivial issues but not for something as important as positioning.

In your case, why don't you go to the RDO and ask for his thoughts on the matter? He should be made aware of conflicting advice anyway and he should offer clarity on the matter as it will be a development issue for you. I did this myself last season on some issues and the clarification was excellent for allowing me to kick on without dwelling too much on it.
It's not likely to be a blocker for promotion, so I won't bother the RDO
I have the advantage of being a RefChat Addict and the advice gleaned herein. It's the uninformed ones out there who could be left scratching their heads
 
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