The Ref Stop

ummm ref, yellow card mate...

richard ramjane

richard ramjane

RefChat Addict
after yesterdays friendly, manager approaches and says "ummm ref, yellow card..."
yeeeeeees? says i. "well, you're not going to put that through are you?"
really? i specifically told both teams before kick off that any cards issued would be a little silly given the fact that its an end of season friendly and any FA punishment would possibly carry over to the beginning of next season.
"oh, well just that the same player got a yellow last week and the ref said he wouldnt put it through"

why would a ref risk a suspension when he's not the one having committed the offence? baffles me that
 
The Ref Stop
... What are the chances of:
  • The club grassing the ref up for not putting it through
  • The other club checking it went through
  • Someone else watching the game checking

... VERY small - so - I can see why last week's ref would risk it

Luckily none of us are that person ;)
 
Alex71 said:
... What are the chances of:
  • The club grassing the ref up for not putting it through
  • The other club checking it went through
  • Someone else watching the game checking

... VERY small - so - I can see why last week's ref would risk it

Luckily none of us are that person ;)
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What are the chance's that last weeks ref doesn't exist half as much as we all make out. So last weeks ref did put the card in but player/manager tell you they said they wouldn't on the off chance that this weeks ref will follow suit??
 
Cheshire Ref said:
What are the chance's that last weeks ref doesn't exist half as much as we all make out. So last weeks ref did put the card in but player/manager tell you they said they wouldn't on the off chance that this weeks ref will follow suit??
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hmm on this occasion i think he wasn't telling porkies... he was fairly candid with a few other comments and i didn't see anything different about his body language during other parts of the conversation to suggest he was lying, and also he specifically mentioned the player that i'd cautioned as having been the player in question the week before. but there was definitely an element of,if you dont ask you dont get...
 
I'm very used to being asked if I am putting cards through - sure most of us are by now ...

Vast majority accept my explanation

They just know that - unfortunately - especially at grass roots - maybe 1 in 3 refs won't be putting them through

Don't ask - don't get ...
 
should we be mentioning to someone when we are getting asked to do this? or is that a) having an element of being a snitch about something unnecessarily and b) causing a ruckus about nothing in particular. Like you say , for the most part your explanation is accepted (as was mine this weekend)
 
I've hard quiet words with Refs who I know don't put cards through - as well as several chats with Club officials - wouldn't suggest doing anything else

Refs have told me they had no idea how to put cards through - even if they wanted to! ... No-one had ever told them how

(This was a time before WGS when it was an email to discipline@countyfa ... and a time before cable, when the local anchorman reigned supreme, when people believed everything they heard on TV. This was an age when only men were allowed to read the news. And in San Diego, one anchorman was more man than the rest. His name was Ron Burgundy)
 
richard ramjane said:
should we be mentioning to someone when we are getting asked to do this? or is that a) having an element of being a snitch about something unnecessarily and b) causing a ruckus about nothing in particular. Like you say , for the most part your explanation is accepted (as was mine this weekend)
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You would be well within your rights to put in a misconduct report if you have been asked. I am sure some on here will tell you MUST do, personally I don't, but tell them I could if I wanted to so probably best if you drop it, that usually shuts them up.
 
Cheshire Ref said:
You would be well within your rights to put in a misconduct report if you have been asked. I am sure some on here will tell you MUST do, personally I don't, but tell them I could if I wanted to so probably best if you drop it, that usually shuts them up.
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A bit pointless without any witnesses to the event though.

It would be "not proven" every time.....wouldn't it ?
 
I do hate that term "last week's ref". "Lasts week's ref was very good", "last week's ref was bad"... At the end of the day, we are all last week's ref. We have good moments, bad moments and many moments where we think we could do something better. The majority of us on here are grassroots referees. Mistakes happen. We all reflect on our games after the final whistle (I hope) and I always question my decisions; could I have done this better? That better? Etc.
 
DB said:
I do hate that term "last week's ref". "Lasts week's ref was very good", "last week's ref was bad"... At the end of the day, we are all last week's ref. We have good moments, bad moments and many moments where we think we could do something better. The majority of us on here are grassroots referees. Mistakes happen. We all reflect on our games after the final whistle (I hope) and I always question my decisions; could I have done this better? That better? Etc.
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Oh of course , me too , I mean in the same game I've most likely made a zillion errors but I'm thinking about how to rectify each one and continue the learning process , but , what concerned me was the guy was basically saying to me ... Look, what I'd like you to do is not perform one of your duties today .
Thats not poor positioning, that's not poor knowledge of law, that's not lack of fitness , all of which you can do something about . It's a situation where you have actively decided , yes, I'm not going to perform that duty today .
 
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I personally think these days the problem of referees not putting cards through, in competitive or friendly games, is far less. I did a lot of the league training sessions for the introduction of match based discipline, and clubs have it drummed into them that if a caution or send off report doesn't arrive they are responsible for chasing it, not having received it is no longer an excuse.

So unless the referee has told the club at the end of the game that he won't be putting it in they are taking a massive risk not chasing it. And even if he has they are still taking a risk as I'm sure lots of referees will say they won't put it in to get away without any arguments only to then logon straight to WGS when they get home ..!
 
RustyRef said:
I personally think these days the problem of referees not putting cards through, in competitive or friendly games, is far less. I did a lot of the league training sessions for the introduction of match based discipline, and clubs have it drummed into them that if a caution or send off report doesn't arrive they are responsible for chasing it, not having received it is no longer an excuse.

So unless the referee has told the club at the end of the game that he won't be putting it in they are taking a massive risk not chasing it. And even if he has they are still taking a risk as I'm sure lots of referees will say they won't put it in to get away without any arguments only to then logon straight to WGS when they get home ..!
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And those found not providing their reports do get to spend more time at home with their families
 
RustyRef said:
I personally think these days the problem of referees not putting cards through, in competitive or friendly games, is far less. I did a lot of the league training sessions for the introduction of match based discipline, and clubs have it drummed into them that if a caution or send off report doesn't arrive they are responsible for chasing it, not having received it is no longer an excuse.

So unless the referee has told the club at the end of the game that he won't be putting it in they are taking a massive risk not chasing it. And even if he has they are still taking a risk as I'm sure lots of referees will say they won't put it in to get away without any arguments only to then logon straight to WGS when they get home ..!
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That's a very interesting stance ...means those guys that actually don't put stuff through really are taking a risk .
Personally I am from every viewpoint , a person who would not expect someone not to do what they've been instructed to do. Even more so now I have a greater understanding of both sides of the fence .
As a player , I sin therefore I get punished, no problem with that . As a manager I see a player get cautioned or sent , ok you've done wrong , accept the punishment , as a captain , one of my players is testing the boundaries , I'll warn him of the consequences.... Hence as a ref when I'm booking or sending off all I expect is people to be like myself and hold their hands up and say fair kop.... The reality is pretty diversely different to that ...
I'd never dream of asking anyone not to put a card through and although I have seen it before I was somewhat taken aback at being asked .
Maybe if clubs were to put not only scores through to the league but also any disciplinary issues it would make people think twice about not reporting

Sorry that's a bit of a ramble :-)
 
The problem with teams claiming that last week's ref didn't put a card through is that it's nigh on impossible to check.

Teams are unlikely to drop themselves in it if it's a caution or dismissal for one of their players, and I doubt many would have the time or inclination to check a caution or dismissal for their opponents.

So unless there is a league or County rep at a game who sees some one cautioned or dismissed and then decides to check, or a ref over hears a colleague say they won't send it in we'Lloyd never really know whether this is a real problem, or if teams asking are just trying it on.
 
Alex71 said:
... What are the chances of:
  • The club grassing the ref up for not putting it through
  • The other club checking it went through
  • Someone else watching the game checking

... VERY small - so - I can see why last week's ref would risk it

Luckily none of us are that person ;)
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For me the chance is still too high. Not only would you get banned from football which would possibly prevent you meeting the promotion criteria, I imagine it will severely hinder your chances of being considered for promotion, even more so in regards to nomination for Level 4.
 
Still don't see the benefit to any ref of not putting them in.

You've done the hard bit and shown them, used them to control the game, why would you then undermine yourself and not put them through? :confused:
 
Personally have never put a card through in my life. I'm paid £35 to ref the game. Not paid anything extra for admin so why should I do more work for the same money as a ref that never gives a card :rolleyes:
 
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