The Ref Stop

Udinese - AC Milan

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The Ref Stop
Very harsh red for the isolated last foul. But just results had the ref gone through the right process which would have been two yellow cards for two successive fouls, first one he missed (reckless) and second one (reckless or SPA). I think the first foul was still playing on his mid when he took the red out.

I must add the quick flash of red almost certainly prevented a melee.
 
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This reminds me of, Antony Taylor at Swansea? Last season?

Red card for violent conduct for me, same as I supported Taylors, even though without checking I think Taylors got downgraded to a yellow

Thats not at attempt to tackle, thats a deliberate kick at an opponent


Surreal scenes at the goal, quick question tho, the Milan player was cautioned for removing jersey before the goal was confirmed.....had the goal been wiped out and replaced with an offside restart, can we justify a caution for removing jersey at the scoring of a goal, when no goal was scored? Awful lot going on, time of game etc, they got the call right, maybe tho the yc could have waited until the goal was confirmed
 
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Ciley Myrus said:
This reminds me of, Antony Taylor at Swansea? Last season?

Red card for violent conduct for me, same as I supported Taylors, even though without checking I think Taylors got downgraded to a yellow

Thats not at attempt to tackle, thats a deliberate kick at an opponent


Surreal scenes at the goal, quick question tho, the Milan player was cautioned for removing jersey before the goal was confirmed.....had the goal been wiped out and replaced with an offside restart, can we justify a caution for removing jersey at the scoring of a goal, when no goal was scored? Awful lot going on, time of game etc, they got the call right, maybe tho the yc could have waited until the goal was confirmed
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Yes. Any misconduct between a review is still administered. The only exceptions really are for DOGSO and SPA.
 
This is where the "VAR is ruining football" arguments come in. Regardless of the decision. What an utter mess that was. Delayed flag is horrible, especially when the delay is that big.
 
I think challenges like that should be eliminated, so fully support the red card. A challenge where there is zero attempt to play the ball should be deal with as VC as the player is intentionally kicking an opponent.

Agree that the goal looked messy, but if they got to the right decision does it really matter? Had the assistant gone with his gut judgement and flagged offside play would have been stopped and a goal would have been incorrectly denied. By delaying the flag until after the goal has been scored he at least had a chance to correct his wrong, or rather the VAR corrected it for him.
 
I have long been a proponent of the red for VC in similar sorts of challenges but for me this one is little more than a reckless trip. All he wants to do break up the attack. I'd definitely be going yellow minimum but struggling to see the argument for a red in this particular instance.
 
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RustyRef said:
I think challenges like that should be eliminated, so fully support the red card. A challenge where there is zero attempt to play the ball should be deal with as VC as the player is intentionally kicking an opponent.

Agree that the goal looked messy, but if they got to the right decision does it really matter? Had the assistant gone with his gut judgement and flagged offside play would have been stopped and a goal would have been incorrectly denied. By delaying the flag until after the goal has been scored he at least had a chance to correct his wrong, or rather the VAR corrected it for him.
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The red card was not VC
There's been numerous threads on the subject of late and I'm a big advocate of making these challenges red card offences. However, the dismissal in the Udinese game is not supported in Law at this time. You probably agree with this; i'm not sure
The whole VAR thing (with the delayed flag and so on), was pitiful
The ref was so swarmed by players it was like a school of fish feeding off some poor sole ;)
VAR seems to make surrounding the ref a lot worse
 
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Lots of questions here:
I don't think the RC was right. Advantage and 2x YC OK, but so little contact the straight RC was bizarre, how does the ref justify?
Why did the AR raise his flag?
Surely it could have just been reviewed without the flag?
When did he raise his flag?
Did he raise it early and the ref didn't get it, did he raise it after the goal, or did he raise when VAR told him to, or when the ref told him to?
Was it actually offside, it's Italy (!), will we ever see it again?
How close was it?
Was it an obvious error?

Answers on a postcard from the Friuli please!
 
It was VC as the referee gave it and it wasn't overturned by VAR.

Law absolutely does support it, you just say he intentionally kicked an opponent using excessive force when the ball wasn't within a playable distance. Any force is excessive force as he is kicking an opponent simply to cheat.

Does it really matter if the VAR incident looks messy if they get to the right decision and avoid an incorrect game changing mistake? Agree on the surrounding the referee issue, but that is easily fixable by making approaching the referee at a VAR review as a straight red card.
 
I Think without looking, it ended up only myself and RustyRef who still backed Taylors red at Swansea, and, it looks like the same again today, its a kick, a trip is, when you outstretch your leg to let the opponent go over it, a kick is when you kick an opponent with no attempt to play the ball, as perfectly described above.

under no circumstances should just taking a direct swipe at an opponent be allowed, and, without knowing too much into Rustys's referee background, it might be telling that in me and him, 2, clearly experienced, at top flight level? have went red card here whereas some grass roots see that as a yellow

for the record I do not intend that message to be condescending in any way, I just think on this occasion its telling.
 
alexgr said:
I have long been a proponent of the red for VC in similar sorts of challenges but for me this one is little more than a reckless trip. All he wants to do break up the attack. I'd definitely be going yellow minimum but struggling to see the argument for a red in this particular instance.
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if your going to trip your pal, do you go and put out your foot for him to go over, or, run after him before swiping him down?

the absence of the ball (its kinda important) here make this a kick, as opposed to any kind of trip, which can happen when player goes for ball yet opponent is too fast/clever/skilled and so defender makes contact with leg....
 
RustyRef said:
It was VC as the referee gave it and it wasn't overturned by VAR.

Law absolutely does support it, you just say he intentionally kicked an opponent using excessive force when the ball wasn't within a playable distance. Any force is excessive force as he is kicking an opponent simply to cheat.

Does it really matter if the VAR incident looks messy if they get to the right decision and avoid an incorrect game changing mistake? Agree on the surrounding the referee issue, but that is easily fixable by making approaching the referee at a VAR review as a straight red card.
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Some of us had a hard time convincing others that it was the right decision to dismiss Joe Ralls (Tottenham v Cardiff), but that incident was much more blatant than this. The vast majority of professional fouls (involving kicking and tripping a player with no thought of the ball) are met with a yellow card. I think this should be Violent Conduct, but why do the vast majority of culprits get off with a caution in these situations?
I think the decision in the OP is wrong, merely because it is at odds with most other televised equivalent incidents, not because of my interpretation (of the laws) as such
 
Big Cat said:
Some of us had a hard time convincing others that it was the right decision to dismiss Joe Ralls (Tottenham v Cardiff), but that incident was much more blatant than this. The vast majority of professional fouls (involving kicking and tripping a player with no thought of the ball) are met with a yellow card. I think this should be Violent Conduct, but why do the vast majority of culprits get off with a caution in these situations?
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because of weak referees who shirk their duty
 
Ciley Myrus said:
if your going to trip your pal, do you go and put out your foot for him to go over, or, run after him before swiping him down?

the absence of the ball (its kinda important) here make this a kick, as opposed to any kind of trip, which can happen when player goes for ball yet opponent is too fast/clever/skilled and so defender makes contact with leg....
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He clips him at the back, which makes the attacker's legs hit each other causing him to fall down. I don't see any sort of kick anywhere.
 
alexgr said:
He clips him at the back, which makes the attacker's legs hit each other causing him to fall down. I don't see any sort of kick anywhere.
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And where do you see a legitimate attempt to play the ball?
a trip/reckless etc applies when making a challenge for the ball
there is none, thus vc
 
@RustyRef , i should add that I didn't mean to preach LOTG to a vastly more experienced ref than myself; forum etiquette under review!
But I have a bee in my bonnet regarding this kind of foul play. Aside from the Cardiff red, i can't recall another instance of VC for anything similar. That's really what i meant by it not being supported in Law
I think it should be met with a dismissal, as do you. Just don't know why top refs frequently set a very bad precedent
 
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