U14 boys second caution

[Taity78]

This is my second season and I'm one of the the older "new refs", I can completely agree on the need and sometimes hesitation for cards, I had a game recently (U14's) where the weather was awful and the tackles were flying in, a couple of quiet words telling players you're giving them the benefit of the doubt but to be be aware that they are getting close to cards- literally 2 minutes later a reckless challenge comes in, call the player over and issue a YC as I'd previously spoken to him, the rest of the game played out until the last minute where the already cautioned player gives away a penalty with another harsh challenge - I call him over and try to use my common sense, literally this could be the last kick of the game so is there any need to send him off with a second yellow? - I decide not to, the penalty is scored and the ball is smashed away in my direction but not at me, by the same player - I'd already spoken to him but I then issue him his second YC for delaying the restart and send him off, just after kick off the timer buzzes and full time - the team with 10 then loose the penalty shoot out as it was a cup game and the player sent off is apparently their main penalty taker - I tried to manage the game without cards as they are 13 /14 however with the best intentions in the world, sometimes circumstance / destiny plays a part - also later I find out that it was the coaches son, and whilst this had no bearing on the cards, personally I don't believe I would have got much higher than 80 marks from this team as he refused to shake my hand at the end of the game

 

[JamesL]

This is my second season and I'm one of the the older "new refs", I can completely agree on the need and sometimes hesitation for cards, I had a game recently (U14's) where the weather was awful and the tackles were flying in, a couple of quiet words telling players you're giving them the benefit of the doubt but to be be aware that they are getting close to cards- literally 2 minutes later a reckless challenge comes in, call the player over and issue a YC as I'd previously spoken to him, the rest of the game played out until the last minute where the already cautioned player gives away a penalty with another harsh challenge - I call him over and try to use my common sense, literally this could be the last kick of the game so is there any need to send him off with a second yellow? - I decide not to, the penalty is scored and the ball is smashed away in my direction but not at me, by the same player - I'd already spoken to him but I then issue him his second YC for delaying the restart and send him off, just after kick off the timer buzzes and full time - the team with 10 then loose the penalty shoot out as it was a cup game and the player sent off is apparently their main penalty taker - I tried to manage the game without cards as they are 13 /14 however with the best intentions in the world, sometimes circumstance / destiny plays a part - also later I find out that it was the coaches son, and whilst this had no bearing on the cards, personally I don't believe I would have got much higher than 80 marks from this team as he refused to shake my hand at the end of the game

And this is where the issue of fairness comes in to it for me.
We've exercised some leniency, and that is fine, you were there, that's your call, after all decisions are made in the opinion of the referee so not calling you out or anything
Had we not sent said player off, as it was the last minute, he is then allowed to get involved in KFTPM and in reality that's unfair to his opponents given he is their PK 'specialist'.

On the subject of marks, I wouldnt get hung up on those, they will balance themselves out across the season and are only used to inform a ref sec on whom he might wish to consider putting on a final, crunch game at the end of the season or identify a colleague who might need some support.

Question if I may...
The 2nd caution - was it DRP or was it done in dissent? Delaying restart doesn't make a lot of sense here, surely the team want to get going to possibly get a winner (I know not a lot of time) and I get a temp dismissal would have been relatively pointless and would have still allowed him to take part in KFTPM. I'm just struggling to reconcile DRP in that scenario.

 

[Taity78]

And this is where the issue of fairness comes in to it for me.
We've exercised some leniency, and that is fine, you were there, that's your call, after all decisions are made in the opinion of the referee so not calling you out or anything
Had we not sent said player off, as it was the last minute, he is then allowed to get involved in KFTPM and in reality that's unfair to his opponents given he is their PK 'specialist'.

On the subject of marks, I wouldnt get hung up on those, they will balance themselves out across the season and are only used to inform a ref sec on whom he might wish to consider putting on a final, crunch game at the end of the season or identify a colleague who might need some support.

Question if I may...
The 2nd caution - was it DRP or was it done in dissent? Delaying restart doesn't make a lot of sense here, surely the team want to get going to possibly get a winner (I know not a lot of time) and I get a temp dismissal would have been relatively pointless and would have still allowed him to take part in KFTPM. I'm just struggling to reconcile DRP in that scenario.

Thanks James and I fully understand, as for your question - at the time in my head it was DRP, however looking at your question it could have been Dissent by action - something I'm learning pretty quickly is always go with your gut, if it is first /second yellow or a red then issue it

 

[Tealeaf]

DRP sits comfortably with me. By virtue of the players actions, the restart was delayed.

And if an opponent was trying to get the ball back to the centre spot too…

Something of a philosophical debate among us on here. I lean more towards DRP than dissent when it comes to launching/throwing/kicking the ball away anyway but that’s a personal thing. I’m judging the more serious impact in my games although either is defensible.

What I will say, in your scenario is that the action has happened after the ball is out of play, rather than immediately after you’ve given the penalty against him. Had it followed in that kind of sequence I’d feel more strongly it was an act of dissent.

 

[JamesL]

DRP sits comfortably with me. By virtue of the players actions, the restart was delayed.

And if an opponent was trying to get the ball back to the centre spot too…

Something of a philosophical debate among us on here. I lean more towards DRP than dissent when it comes to launching/throwing/kicking the ball away anyway but that’s a personal thing. I’m judging the more serious impact in my games although either is defensible.

What I will say, in your scenario is that the action has happened after the ball is out of play, rather than immediately after you’ve given the penalty against him. Had it followed in that kind of sequence I’d feel more strongly it was an act of dissent.

I agree, I tend to as well, but there are times we need to recognise the difference, especially in a match control context which is why I posed the question.

It's probably the hardest one to get right... It was just in that situation (except for the scenario you outlined, which I hadn't thought of) DRP didn't feel right.

I would say though that I can count multiple dissent (albeit by word) cautions have come post restart for the original decision they are dissenting against. Bearing in mind, the player will still be unhappy and that migh have been reignited by the conceding of a crucial goal.

Add to that the context of the original thread (not sending off u14 for DOGSO) it offers a potential solution to punish the player but not send him off, if that's how you want to approach the game.

 

[RustyRef]

It sounds more like dissent by action than delaying restart to me. If he'd hoofed it 50 metres behind the goal then I'd agree with delaying, but the fact you say he kicked it towards you, and presumably you were on the pitch, doesn't make it obvious that it actually delayed the restart.

 

[Max2]

USB/AA. Bosh, done. Bye bye.

 

[Therealcjhill]

Wouldn’t dissent be a sin bin then and not 2nd yellow. If he’s kicked it towards centre spot, could you really deem that, delaying play. Or would you use kicking ball at opponent.

 

[Taity78]

Wouldn’t dissent be a sin bin then and not 2nd yellow. If he’s kicked it towards centre spot, could you really deem that, delaying play. Or would you use kicking ball at opponent.

the ball was kicked towards the corner flag ( well in that direction) but went half way onto the next next pitch ( which had a match being played)