The Ref Stop

tournament fees

I think the big difference here is we are comparing apples to oranges. The international events can not be compared to a local comp. I head over to the states to do the USA Cup, this costs an arm and a leg for clubs to enter but what an experience for a child, to play against international teams! these international events are the comps that cost hundreds to enter and where referees get compensated on par with what they should! bear in mind the travel, accommodation costs we pay.......

A local comp is totally different, volunteers, of the kids who play help out to keep costs down, if they never volunteered though either the costs to all clubs would increase or the competition wouldn't happen.

But to clarify my position on referees being fairly compensated at local events, usually these events are for local referees, usually invited by the club as they have a relationship together, £50-60 is fair on both sides I feel
 
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cdsman said:
The club only made that much PROFIT because so many people within the club gave their time for free...

I'm a referee who is also involved with a Colts football club in the South East.
We charge teams £35 to enter and have over 100 teams over the weekend.
We have six pitches and 9 referees, so they work in teams of 3 covering 2 pitches.... a nice balance and hopefully they enjoy it. The referees get £60 per day (plus lunch and water) for a 9am - 6pm day... not much really, but the refs costs us £1000 over the weekend.

All of our club parents volunteer to help at the tournament for free, and all of the committee work on the Friday setting up, and then from 7am to 7pm Saturday and Sunday for free.

I think that we have it about right. £60 is not much for a full day's work, but we have many of the same referees during the regular season so they know the club and are happy to support our biggest fundraiser of the year.

The USA model is clearly completely different!! :wow:
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You've pretty much described the model we use at the youth club where I organise the refs for our tournament. Ensuring there is sufficient coverage is key, and that the refs get breaks - but effectively three refs for two pitches works out well. Do 2 games on pitch A, then 2 on pitch B, then have a 2 game break. We offer the same rate, and unlimited food and drink throughout. Look after your refs and the refs look after your tournament, which means many happy kids and parents. We have refs that come back to us year after year, so must be doing something right.
 
Sam_C said:
Apologies for taking the thread off topic, but to hopefully get back on track it appears this is one of the many cultural differences we have. The tournaments here are very much for-profit, and the referees are an expected expense that comes from the tournament fees each team pays to enter. Referee's working for free does not exist here, charity games and u-very-littles aside.
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Not true. AYSO in the has over 400,000 players from 6U to 19U. And the referees are volunteers--regular season, playoffs, tournaments. And at least where I am, we regularly hear from parents that the quality of refereeing they see in AYSO games is higher than what they see in club games. There are a lot of us in the US that are doing this solely for the love of the game and so the kids can play. (IT is also true that many AYSO referees also referee club games or high school games.)
 
socal lurker said:
Not true. AYSO in the has over 400,000 players from 6U to 19U. And the referees are volunteers--regular season, playoffs, tournaments. And at least where I am, we regularly hear from parents that the quality of refereeing they see in AYSO games is higher than what they see in club games.
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Perhaps AYSO is more popular elsewhere in the US, but I have only heard of it through referee forums and never actually seen an AYSO team or event (I live in MA). I think it's fantastic that you can get good referees working regardless of the lack of pay; people should do what they want with their time. I'm just not going to be one of them, and there is no expectation of working for free in my area so I am not alone. It's quite interesting how different some of us see things; I didn't even know that people were refereeing for free on a regular basis before this, to each their own.
 
I live in Southern California, which is the birthplace of AYSO. It definitely has greater depth in certain parts of the country. Most AYSO refs get started as volunteers when their kids are playing. And many of us keep it up. It's fun, it's exercise, and it's giving back. But don't get me wrong, I have no issue with those who choose to only do games where they get paid. (And now that my youngest will be going away for college, I might start doing some of those games to. Hmm, we'll see what my wife thinks about me doing more . . .. )
 
Nij said:
Treating sport like it's a job that you need to get paid for, unless you are actually at the (semi-)professional level, is definitely pretentious at minimum.
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Pretentious? Why?
I have done charity tournaments for subsistence only. I've done charity matches made a point of getting offered my fee and said keep it for the charity.
Other fundraising tournaments.I expected the going rate........why shouldn't I.
 
I did my final charity game last season 12 months after retirement. An ex player lost his young wife AND second child in childbirth, he was raising money for cuddle cot incubators at 5K each. I was offered a fee to which I chucked straight in the pot with £20 on top of it... If ever their was a worthy cause this was it.

It was very low key on 4G and I was asked to phone video chunks of the game from a referees perspective for their memories. I got the organiser lad scoring and being mobbed by 22 players on the floor, it brought a tear to many eyes on and off the pitch. A fantastic memory for such a sad day!!!
 
Nij said:
Treating sport like it's a job that you need to get paid for, unless you are actually at the (semi-)professional level, is definitely pretentious at minimum.
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No it isn't.

As a referee you are providing a service, why shouldn't you be fairly compensated for that (what you consider fair compensation is a personal thing).

I have done a charity game as a referee which won a world record for the longest continuous football match at the time, I did afternoon/evening and with a round trip of nearly 140 miles I got home at around midnight. I did that for expenses and food and drink supplied.

It was for a very good cause, and I was happy to do it.

But that doesn't mean I'm willing to give up an entire day (or longer) for free so that football United can raise money to buy some new training tops.

The same way that I wouldn't give up every Sunday morning for the entirety of the football season for free.
 
Thank you for your replies.

It appears that clubs are somehow getting away with paying low and making high profits. I'm not sure how things will change for the better.

The example i gave really is pure greed and maximum profit. 1 spare ref on ten pitches - please!
 
Kent Ref said:
Thank you for your replies.

It appears that clubs are somehow getting away with paying low and making high profits. I'm not sure how things will change for the better.

The example i gave really is pure greed and maximum profit. 1 spare ref on ten pitches - please!
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Vote with your feet then, you don't have to do it.

I've run a grass roots club, and one that worked its way to a senior level where costs were ever increasing. The players paid to play (including in divisions where other teams paid their players), all of the coaches, secretaries, managers, etc, all did it for nothing without even getting expenses, so finances were difficult. We had fundraisers, and realistically the only people being paid for those were the referees. They got a fee, and we looked after them with a tab at both the tea and burger bar during the comp and the actual bar after, but there's no way we could afford to pay them huge amounts as that would defeat the object (think from memory it was £50 for the day during which they would probably referee for about 4-5 hours). We never had trouble getting referees, but as a club we had a reputation for looking after referees during the normal season so they wanted to help out.
 
RustyRef said:
Vote with your feet then, you don't have to do it.

I've run a grass roots club, and one that worked its way to a senior level where costs were ever increasing. The players paid to play (including in divisions where other teams paid their players), all of the coaches, secretaries, managers, etc, all did it for nothing without even getting expenses, so finances were difficult. We had fundraisers, and realistically the only people being paid for those were the referees. They got a fee, and we looked after them with a tab at both the tea and burger bar during the comp and the actual bar after, but there's no way we could afford to pay them huge amounts as that would defeat the object (think from memory it was £50 for the day during which they would probably referee for about 4-5 hours). We never had trouble getting referees, but as a club we had a reputation for looking after referees during the normal season so they wanted to help out.
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If clubs look after refs then the fee is less important - i agree. But only having one spare ref tells the whole story.
 
JH said:
It is not pretentious to want to be compensated for giving up your whole day for others.
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Asking to be compensated is a different thing from complaining that such compensation doesn't match your regular salary.
I get 20 per game, usually doing a couple each week. Does this match anywhere near what I get from my actual job? No. It isn't even above minimum wage!
Am I daft and pretentious enough to complain when I have international-level players and officials working around and with me, while I do something I enjoy at effectively no cost except my time? Definitely not.
 
We have a sliding scale match fee list that is used for ”real” matches. The list is available online and used by teams for friendlies with a bit of rounding. Grassroots tournaments with short halves are a bit different... but we have a very active group in the local ref Association who help with a lot of the tournaments, help set the fees and the local ref assoc is the main way friendlies and tournaments are get refs.
 
What I'm picking up here is that tournaments come in many formats such primary school 5 a-side, charity fundraisers and right up to large scale corporate events which are run for profit. When my son was primary school aged I refereed their annual tournament for many years and was happy to do it for free apart from thanks from the organisers and a few beers - it was more rewarding and enjoyable that larger tournaments for which I was paid. Tournaments aren't compulsory, just check what is on offer and decide for yourself.
 
I did a charity game for a local hospice at the New York Stadium (Rotherham) a couple of weeks ago. No fee, but I'd have paid for the privilege (I made a donation). It was also my first game with NARs. I've never done a tournament because I play cricket in the summer, but I've been asked to do a lot. Prices very from free to £80 a day. Like everything it's a free world and a free market. If they offered no fees the previous year but enough refs agreed to do it then 0 fee is it's market value. It might not be good enough for some but it was for others so that's that. Equally, if it's £50 but they couldn't find enough refs then they'll have to pay more. There is no right or wrong from our perspective, as we are a collective. Our market value will always be found based on our participation (or lack of it).

From a personal perspective, I'd do a charity tournament all day for nothing, but I won't do a normal tournament as the fees don't get close to what I could earn at work or what it's worth to give a day up for. That's just my personal circumstances (I have 2 kids so if I'm not playing cricket I've got plenty of other stuff to do!). But to others, reffing all day is what they enjoy and will do it for nothing or a small fee so good look to them. Each to their own.
 
i did a tournament last weekend full referee kit supplied no money no food. not unusual up here. its not alll about money
 
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