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PommieRef

PommieRef

New Member
Red v Green game going fine and no real issues until the 40th minute. Greens CAR flagged for a offside, the player received the ball on the between the 18 yard line and the penalty spot. I had a credible position and was about 8yards away and could see he was not offside as the Greens RB was playing him on as the ball came down to his feet (ball was headed high by a red attacker). By the time the Green defender pushed up the ball was at the reds feet. Yes he looked offside then. The flag went up and the whole of the greens defence stopped as did the GK, red player carries on and slots home. I give the goal. Here comes the abuse! Ended up cautioning 2 for dissent for various stupid comments, I was told I had to go an talk to the CAR to ask what he saw as he wasn't flagging for offside. The kid is still stood there in the same position with the flag signalling offside. Get told the goal shouldn't count as the GK stopped. The goalkeeper said he stopped because the CAR had flagged, I said did he blow a whistle? no, we'll play on then. Many more excuses! Finally get to half time and no issues.

Second half in the 50th minute a 1-2 on the wing by reds the linesman sticks his flag up. Again i was about 10yards away and could more a less see across the line. As the the 1-2 started the defender stepped out and the attacker ran on. Again the defence stopped and the red ran to the by line crossed in and a easy tap in. Here come more angry players ( they were much more polite this time). I went over to the CAR and asked him what he saw. He said he was offside as the ball was played his arm was in a offside position. I say thank you and give the goal, no issues with him. As I said in pre match de-brief with him I said feel free to flag but the final decision is mine. He agreed to this. Anyways after speaking to him to greens players told the CAR to put the flag down and not to bother as "I was not using him". It took 3/4 of them to tell this kid who was about 14 to stop being the CAR.

Waiting for kick off, I get let's go then ref. I asked them to supply a CAR they refused. I carried on with the game, lots off school boy remarks from them. I felt I literally played as one of their CB second half to keep a eye on offside. I felt I handled the game well, considering I felt I lost the green team after the second decision against them. After the game I got a lot from the greens saying you ruined the game ref. Was tempted to say " no your decision not to play to the whistle cost you".

Did I do anything wrong?

I'm just felt with why do we bother? I could of spent the time with my family.
 
The Referee Store
Hard to say you did anything wrong mate.
All I'd say is, you can never get much grief for going with the linesman whereas you're guaranteeing grief for going against them.
Sounds like you're too good
 
Just think of it like this.....

If the 14 year old lad gets a bit of lip is he gonna have the balls to put his flag up again? Would he be intimadated?

Note - yes he shouldn't get lip in first place
 
By 14 I may of been doing him some injustice. At the most he was 15/16. He was there only spectator and had said he does it everyweek. From our pre match chat he seemed switched on and I felt comfortable with him doing the job.

I do get what your getting at though.
 
Not wrong with over-ruling the CAR. End of the day, they are there to assist you, but the final call as to whether you agree with them or not rests with you as referee. I have had a 13/14 year old CAR a few times before, in all honesty he was a lot better than many adults!

As for the players, their fault for not playing to the whistle. Did you explain to the players that as far as offside is concerned, the arm doesn't count?
 
And this is why you shouldn't let an unqualified person indicate offside offences. I had to relieve my CAR of his duties last week as he kept sticking his flag up to appeal offside decisions
 
Did you give a loud 'play on' both times ?
One thing I always say before kick off is play to the whistle not a flag !
 
I tell players prematch during equipment check (in leagues in which CARs are permitted) do not react to the flag, that's purely for my benefit, you only respond to the whistle. No whistle, keep running
 
Brian Hamilton said:
And this is why you shouldn't let an unqualified person indicate offside offences. I had to relieve my CAR of his duties last week as he kept sticking his flag up to appeal offside decisions
Click to expand...
No. By qualified, do you mean a league assigned NAR (or do you ask to see some form of ID if a CAR says they are a qualified ref, then ping the ref sec to see if they are an active qualified ref)? In my area there are people involved with clubs whose main involvement is running the line. They do it week in and week out, they keep up with play, they signal correctly, they follow instruction and don't moan if overridden, they enjoy themselves and the contribution they give to a game of football. Having an actively involved CAR benefits a game far more than a sole referee attempting to make correct offside calls. Having to dismiss a CAR that is causing more problems than he is solving - fine, I have no issue with that - but in an area where CAR's do call offside, the benefits far outweigh the risks.
 
I had a very helpful CAR who kept waving his flag like a madman. I asked what the problem was and he was trying to indicate foul throws for me...I politely declined.
And yes, I spoke to him about what I expected pre match.
 
xPositor said:
No. By qualified, do you mean a league assigned NAR (or do you ask to see some form of ID if a CAR says they are a qualified ref, then ping the ref sec to see if they are an active qualified ref)? In my area there are people involved with clubs whose main involvement is running the line. They do it week in and week out, they keep up with play, they signal correctly, they follow instruction and don't moan if overridden, they enjoy themselves and the contribution they give to a game of football. Having an actively involved CAR benefits a game far more than a sole referee attempting to make correct offside calls. Having to dismiss a CAR that is causing more problems than he is solving - fine, I have no issue with that - but in an area where CAR's do call offside, the benefits far outweigh the risks.
Click to expand...
I mean a NAR. I still don't want to rely on an unqualified official giving me offside decisions. We'll have to agree to disagree on the benefits vs risks point.
 
Did the right thing in overruling. Unfortunately, the AR created a scenario where it's not fair to everybody. Either the attack or the defence are going to cop something unfair here. Either way, stopping for offside for an incorrect flag isn't permissible in the LOTG anyway, and they should know to play the whistle.

Verbalise an overruling as quickly as possible to help sell it. Sometimes in these scenarios it can help to consult the AR just for show.

If they refused to supply a CAR, I'd report it (if they're required to supply one).

Nothing wrong with your positioning - I've had games where I've positioned myself basically like an AR for one team, because absolutely nothing else was happening except offsides up that end.
 
I've started bringing the CARs to the centre circle when I meet and greet the captains so that everyone hears what I have to say. For a CAR, I ask for the basics, in and outs, confident flag, don't be upset if I overrule because I have a better position. Don't give me offsides, that's for me to deal with. Then, I instruct the Captains, play to the whistle, you've just heard what I've told these gentlemen, don't abuse them, they're my team.
The response so far has been positive and I even had an in-match apology from a player on Saturday after his skipper had told him what I'd said pre-match.
I guess what I'm saying is use pre-match to set expectations and be consistent with the message to both teams.
 
In my local leagues and County Cup CAR CAN be 14 but HAS to be older than the players in the match (Unless he is a qualified ref - although how you check that I don't know!)

Worth checking your own comp rules on that.
 
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