Throw in - spinning the ball

[JamesL]

There is nothing in law 15 about "spinning" the ball from a throw in, or am I going mad?

In my game last night one team were complaining about the technique the other teams long throw specialist was using.

However, in my view he was throwing the ball using two hands, delivering from behind and over the head and both feet on or behind the line.

He was able to generate spin on the ball using the proper throw in technique but they all seemed to think this was a foul throw...

Have I lost the plot?

 

[Ben448844]

I used to see that alot in my playing days and I never once heard anyone ever complain or think it was a foul. You dont see as many long throws these days. I did an u15 friendly last night and some of the throw ins were borderline with the hands behind the head but it was refreshing to not hear constant appeals from managers for foul throws. I think the over importance we used to put on exact throw in technique is slowly leaving the game thankfully

 

[Sheffields Finest]

Sound like a perfect Play on, next to me!!

 

[Hoosier Ref]

Curious what age/level? Adult? This was a thing waaaayy back in the 80's when it was ruled a foul throw back when I was U14-U18. I refereed for maybe a year back then but do remember it being crazy nit-picky on the throws. I was glad to see that nonsense go away. You are correct. They are not.

 

[one]

It's the 'with' in "with two hands" which is the key. Is he using both hands to throw or is he using one hand to throw and the other to support it (like a basketball shot)? I'd say in your case he is using both to throw. Most people have one hand stronger than the other so they would generate some spin even if they don't intend to.

 

[Kes]

There is nothing in law 15 about "spinning" the ball from a throw in, or am I going mad?

In my game last night one team were complaining about the technique the other teams long throw specialist was using.

However, in my view he was throwing the ball using two hands, delivering from behind and over the head and both feet on or behind the line.

He was able to generate spin on the ball using the proper throw in technique but they all seemed to think this was a foul throw...

Have I lost the plot?

Yeah had that one directed at me before as well.

Some clever-witted coaches seem to think that if the ball spins then it can't mean the player has thrown it "properly" with both hands.

I simply replied to the bloke: "Look mate, if it's thrown from behind and over the head, and he's got two hands on it when he does it - that's good enough for me!!".

 

[RobOda]

Have I lost the plot?

No, I had it a lot in early games last season from various teams arguing that "spinning the ball is a foul throw."

I presume it was something pre-season referees had been telling them, as it soon stopped getting raised once we had a few league matches.

 

[JamesL]

Curious what age/level? Adult? This was a thing waaaayy back in the 80's when it was ruled a foul throw back when I was U14-U18. I refereed for maybe a year back then but do remember it being crazy nit-picky on the throws. I was glad to see that nonsense go away. You are correct. They are not.

This was adults. Fairly decent level. Step 6 on national league system so players are a touch more skilful than your average Saturday league

 

[Andrew.Rainsbury]

Got taught at 'ref school' - The thrower must use both hands with "equal force". The thrower must deliver the ball from behind and over their head in a continuous motion. - Therefore 'excessive spinning' indicates that equal force has not been used and the thrower is trying to gain an unfair advantage - therefore in my humble opinion - dependent on the spin 'Foul throw'...

 

[one]

And in my humble opinion, your ref school has made things up and added conditions that the law has not required

So what if there is spin and it is not excessive, has he used equal force?

 

[Kes]

Got taught at 'ref school' - The thrower must use both hands with "equal force". The thrower must deliver the ball from behind and over their head in a continuous motion. - Therefore 'excessive spinning' indicates that equal force has not been used and the thrower is trying to gain an unfair advantage - therefore in my humble opinion - dependent on the spin 'Foul throw'...

What possible advantage could a thrower gain from the ball spinning?

 

[Ben448844]

What possible advantage could a thrower gain from the ball spinning?

I suppose to make it spin the thrower must have taken his weaker hand off the ball just before his stronger hand to generate the spin. But it's severe nit picking. The previous poster who just tells them that it's good enough for me is the way I would go. But I played in the Manchester league's from 8 until 33 and I cant ever remember it being a 'thing'. Clearly it was or is elsewhere which is curious

 

[Mada]

Got taught at 'ref school' - The thrower must use both hands with "equal force". The thrower must deliver the ball from behind and over their head in a continuous motion. - Therefore 'excessive spinning' indicates that equal force has not been used and the thrower is trying to gain an unfair advantage - therefore in my humble opinion - dependent on the spin 'Foul throw'...

Does that apply still as it's not mentioned in the IFAB laws of the game?

 

[zarathustra]

Got taught at 'ref school' - The thrower must use both hands with "equal force". The thrower must deliver the ball from behind and over their head in a continuous motion. - Therefore 'excessive spinning' indicates that equal force has not been used and the thrower is trying to gain an unfair advantage - therefore in my humble opinion - dependent on the spin 'Foul throw'...

Sounds like 'ref school' were trying to over complicate one the simplest laws.

All you need to know is:

1) was the player standing facing the field of play
2) had part of each foot on or behind the touchline.
3) throws the ball from behind and over their head using both hands at the point where the ball left the field of play.

I do t think we really need to try complicate this by inventing the need for "equal force" which is almost impossible to tell, and would be discriminatory against anyone with a disability that affects the amount of force they can use in particular arm.

 

[Kes]

I suppose to make it spin the thrower must have taken his weaker hand off the ball just before his stronger hand to generate the spin. But it's severe nit picking. The previous poster who just tells them that it's good enough for me is the way I would go. But I played in the Manchester league's from 8 until 33 and I cant ever remember it being a 'thing'. Clearly it was or is elsewhere which is curious

I understand the physics of why it spins Ben but @Andrew.Rainsbury that wasn't my question.

 

[Ben448844]

I understand the physics of why it spins Ben but @Andrew.Rainsbury that wasn't my question.

I just assume everyone is as thick as me

 

[CanuckRef]

"Honestly guys, all of your throw-ins are ****; do we want to stand here going back and forth for foul throws all day, or do we want to get on with playing football?"

 

[wazztie16]

Sounds like 'ref school' were trying to over complicate one the simplest laws.

All you need to know is:

1) was the player standing facing the field of play
2) had part of each foot on or behind the touchline.
3) throws the ball from behind and over their head using both hands at the point where the ball left the field of play.

I do t think we really need to try complicate this by inventing the need for "equal force" which is almost impossible to tell, and would be discriminatory against anyone with a disability that affects the amount of force they can use in particular arm.

View attachment 3698

Possibly the biggest issue with this forum, well more the members, that they try and pick so many unlikely scenarios and things that just aren't applicable, go back to the basics of the law and if anyone disagrees in a match, ask them to tell you where in law it states whichever issue they have.

Release of the ball in a throw in.
Spin of the ball in a throw in.

If it isn't in the law, they need to be quiet about it, because it causes more issues than it needs to.

 

[socal lurker]

Got taught at 'ref school' - The thrower must use both hands with "equal force". The thrower must deliver the ball from behind and over their head in a continuous motion. - Therefore 'excessive spinning' indicates that equal force has not been used and the thrower is trying to gain an unfair advantage - therefore in my humble opinion - dependent on the spin 'Foul throw'...

When? The 70s? Under older language of the Laws, the idea of equal force was more present (I don't recall the exact language am too lazy to look it up), and excessive sideways spin was taught as infraction. But that should be long dead as an idea. Watch the hands, not the ball. As others have said, as long as both hands are used for the throw*, it doesn't matter if one is used more as long as the ball comes over the head while the player is facing the field and the feet are properly positioned. There is nothing wrong with an ugly throw. Refs need to stop reading nonsense into the TI law.

____
*And players with only one, must do something that looks like a TI--ball has to come over the head, not thrown like a GK might throw.

 

[Mintyref]

FFS it's a means of getting the ball back in play........unless there's an identifiable advantage.....play on...stop sweating the small stuff!