The Ref Stop

They think it's all over ... It is now!

I can see some EFL going to the wall with this, it was generally running on empty anyway so this may be the final straw if it’s elongated.
 
The Ref Stop
Mr Dean said:
England. What is the FA ruling?
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Below step 7 mens leagues can either expunge all results with no promotion or relegation, or use points per game (PPG) to determine promotion and relegation. That said, it does use the word "considered" so I suppose you could take that to mean a third option may also be considered. Although that would still leave the problem that they can't create their constitution for next season until these deciding games have been played, and can't be affiliated until they have done that so there are serious pitfalls. I would be amazed if any grass roots football is played before August, and that is well after when leagues must have their constitutions confirmed and affiliation finalised.

Leagues in the women's game at all levels below the top two tiers don't have that option, all leagues must be immediately ceased with all results expunged and no promotion and relegation.
 
Mr Dean said:
Lawyers would love to take up this case. They'll probably argue about how the league's cancellation caused a club financial losses. And, when taking civil action, the judge will decide whether the club has suffered financial loss on the balance of probabilities.
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Apart from by the time any of that could happen we'd be well into next season. It would be a pointless exercise, apart from perhaps trying to get compensation. And below step 7, you'd be taking the league to court as they made the decision, and they don't have any money to pay compensation as effectively they just hold money on behalf of member clubs, they aren't profit making.
 
Mr Dean said:
Lawyers would love to take up this case. They'll probably argue about how the league's cancellation caused a club financial losses. And, when taking civil action, the judge will decide whether the club has suffered financial loss on the balance of probabilities.
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You’re leaving out a step in the legal analysis: before getting to loss, the club would first have to show the league’s cancellation was wrongful. Good luck with that.
 
socal lurker said:
You’re leaving out a step in the legal analysis: before getting to loss, the club would first have to show the league’s cancellation was wrongful. Good luck with that.
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I think teams who had already secured promotion will have a solid case and teams which were likely to secure promotion will have a very good case especially since cancellation doesn't appear to be the 'default' option in league rules.
 
Mr Dean said:
I think teams who had already secured promotion will have a solid case and teams which were likely to secure promotion will have a very good case especially since cancellation doesn't appear to be the 'default' option in league rules.
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You may think that; I don't. The plaintiff team would have to establish that the league had a legal duty to make a different decision. The fact that promotion of one team requires relegation of another makes that a harder case. Given the global pandemic, I think the courts are going to be very reluctant to intervene absent a very clear legal duty--something specific in the league rules that was violated. (Teams that were "likely" to gain promotion are going to have an even harder time, as courts are reluctant to engage in speculation about what would have happened.)
 
socal lurker said:
You may think that; I don't. The plaintiff team would have to establish that the league had a legal duty to make a different decision. The fact that promotion of one team requires relegation of another makes that a harder case. Given the global pandemic, I think the courts are going to be very reluctant to intervene absent a very clear legal duty--something specific in the league rules that was violated. (Teams that were "likely" to gain promotion are going to have an even harder time, as courts are reluctant to engage in speculation about what would have happened.)
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Each team in a league has the opportunity to gain promotion to a higher league - in fact promotion is the main prize of a league. Part way through the league, the FA removed the opportunity of being promoted to a higher league. This is comparable to changing the terms of a contract mid-way through the contract period.

The courts may rule in favour of the FA due to the pandemic but it'll still be a very difficult and costly argument for the FA which is why I predict an out of court settlement.
 
Mr Dean said:
I think teams who had already secured promotion will have a solid case and teams which were likely to secure promotion will have a very good case especially since cancellation doesn't appear to be the 'default' option in league rules.
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But they haven't secured a promotion, the league tables are only an indication and are only finalised once the season has ended. As an example a club could have the number of points that means they can't be caught but then fail FFP, or be found to have played an ineligible player, and then get points deducted.
 
Mr Dean said:
Clubs are already threatening legal action. And, local MPs are getting involved. This could turn very messy for the FA.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/52098137
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They probably want to be careful, certainly at lower levels, if their actions risk the start of the next season the other clubs can get rid of them at an AGM or SGM, and I know of one case where this actually happened. From SCoR ....


  • (A) At the AGM or SGM called for the purpose in accordance with the provisions of Rule 9, notice of motion having been duly circulated on the agenda by direction of the Management Committee, the accredited delegates present shall have the power to: (i) remove a member of the Management Committee from office; (ii) exclude any Club or Team from membership, both of which must be supported by more than two thirds (2/3) of those present and voting. Voting on this point shall be conducted by ballot. A member of the Management Committee or Club which is the subject of the vote being taken shall be excluded from voting.
The issue they face is that the majority of clubs won't care as they won't have been affected. So if a couple of clubs look like they will derail the following season the other clubs can, and quite probably will, just get rid of them.

More complicated at higher levels, but the fact is no legal case would be started, let alone concluded, before the start of the next season. Which comes back to my point about it being a futile exercise save perhaps for compensation.

In any case, any club publicly even talking about legal action at this current time need to take a long hard look at themselves. Over a thousand people have died in England in the past few days, doctors and nurses are working their fingers to the bone at no inconsiderable risk to themselves, football really doesn't matter at the moment.
 
RustyRef said:
In any case, any club publicly even talking about legal action at this current time need to take a long hard look at themselves. Over a thousand people have died in England in the past few days, doctors and nurses are working their fingers to the bone at no inconsiderable risk to themselves, football really doesn't matter at the moment.
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You are right that football is irrelevant right now but I don't see how the clubs' letter has any bearing on the fantastic work our doctors and nurses are doing.

Unfortunately, it is the case that clubs must be seen to strongly object to the FA's decision for any future legal action to carry any weight. Courts would expect parties to reach a resolution themselves before using court time.
 
Mr Dean said:
You are right that football is irrelevant right now but I don't see how the clubs' letter has any bearing on the fantastic work our doctors and nurses are doing.

Unfortunately, it is the case that clubs must be seen to strongly object to the FA's decision for any future legal action to carry any weight. Courts would expect parties to reach a resolution themselves before using court time.
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There is no legal requirement to publicly or strongly object before filing a lawsuit. I don't think public noise has anything to do with future legal action, but about making the fan base feel something is being done. This is PR not legal strategy.
 
socal lurker said:
There is no legal requirement to publicly or strongly object before filing a lawsuit. I don't think public noise has anything to do with future legal action, but about making the fan base feel something is being done. This is PR not legal strategy.
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No legal requirement but it is more or less a de facto requirement and certainly helps the case.

Judge: Did you make your objections clear to the FA?
Clubs: Yes, in the strongest possible terms.

I agree with you regarding PR because it is in everyone's interests to avoid court proceedings entirely. This is bad PR for the FA, which already has a muddled reputation.
 
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