The use of homophobic language
- Thread starter Trip
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Justified? Absolutely. If you show a card and write that in the report, you'll be backed up entirely by your FA.
Do you actually want to do it? That depends on if you personally are offended and/or it appears to anger other players. Given the relatively mild nature of the comment, I think you could argue that a stern talking-to is appropriate. Obviously a caution is wrong in law, while ignoring it implicitly condones the language - which is both morally wrong, and puts you in a really tricky situation if homophobic language escalates and you later hears something more harsh that your feel is definitely worth a red.
Do you actually want to do it? That depends on if you personally are offended and/or it appears to anger other players. Given the relatively mild nature of the comment, I think you could argue that a stern talking-to is appropriate. Obviously a caution is wrong in law, while ignoring it implicitly condones the language - which is both morally wrong, and puts you in a really tricky situation if homophobic language escalates and you later hears something more harsh that your feel is definitely worth a red.
Charlie Jones
Work Until You Don't Have To Introduce Yourself
I get where you are coming from @GraemeS ...
my thoughts ... if he said 'why don't you try jumping n***er (or enter some other form of racist derivative)' then would you send him off, even if nobody actually reacted to it?
if your answer is yes, but not a yes to sending off the queer comment then I think you need to really look at yourself in the mirror ...
if your answer is no, you wouldn't send them off for the racist remark, then I think you need to really look at yourself in the mirror ...
when it comes down to racist/homosexual/discriminative comments then think to yourself 'would this be an offence by law in the street?' if so, then why is it not a red card on the pitch?
for me, it doesn't matter about who reacted and who didn't - it is a red card offence.
my thoughts ... if he said 'why don't you try jumping n***er (or enter some other form of racist derivative)' then would you send him off, even if nobody actually reacted to it?
if your answer is yes, but not a yes to sending off the queer comment then I think you need to really look at yourself in the mirror ...
if your answer is no, you wouldn't send them off for the racist remark, then I think you need to really look at yourself in the mirror ...
when it comes down to racist/homosexual/discriminative comments then think to yourself 'would this be an offence by law in the street?' if so, then why is it not a red card on the pitch?
for me, it doesn't matter about who reacted and who didn't - it is a red card offence.
Bracing for backlash......
The player in question is ignorant. Odds are (as in general), many of his teammates are ignorant. RC here would probably be so shocking and surprising to them, they would proabably even doubt it correct in law, that it would put match control hugely at risk IMHO. I would call the player over and tell him in 2016 (errr circa 1995 no?) that is a hugely offensive term and that I would be justified by law in giving a straight red. Stern warning - eductation opportunity - save the world one ignorant person at a time.
Only thing that would change my approach is if this was a very senior game with many people in attendance and/or televised in which case it would be a good chance to make and example and again educate.
The player in question is ignorant. Odds are (as in general), many of his teammates are ignorant. RC here would probably be so shocking and surprising to them, they would proabably even doubt it correct in law, that it would put match control hugely at risk IMHO. I would call the player over and tell him in 2016 (errr circa 1995 no?) that is a hugely offensive term and that I would be justified by law in giving a straight red. Stern warning - eductation opportunity - save the world one ignorant person at a time.
Only thing that would change my approach is if this was a very senior game with many people in attendance and/or televised in which case it would be a good chance to make and example and again educate.
Charlie Jones
Work Until You Don't Have To Introduce Yourself
so when I come along the following week, he does the same thing and I do the correct thing and send him off - I get the backlash of 'last weeks ref didn't!'
sometimes you have to also think of your fellow colleagues ... you call the perpetrator ignorant, yet isn't what you're doing ignorant?
sometimes you have to also think of your fellow colleagues ... you call the perpetrator ignorant, yet isn't what you're doing ignorant?
I entirely understand your argument - and as I say, I think you're perfectly entitled to show red if you consider it offensive. If you as the referee are the only one offended, and consider it to be offensive language as a result, it's worthy of a red regardless of any other reaction.
I would argue (and I accept, perhaps wrongly), that the homophobic remark used in the OP is relatively mild, does not appear to be targeted in any way and is likely caused by ignorance rather than any specific homophobic malice. A stern talking to and explaining that under the current laws, that is not acceptable, would be acceptable in some situations.
In the "comparable" scenario you put out there, I think the choice of language is much harsher, it's likely to be specifically targeted at a black player and the words used are very widely known to be unacceptable in almost any context. Although both situations can justify a red card, I think they're different enough that one is 100% nailed on and the other is subject to some context.
Bit harsh but judge me as you see fit.
Ignorant is generally lacking knowledge or understanding - think you are probably questioning my judgement instead, but perhaps not.
Charlie Jones
Work Until You Don't Have To Introduce Yourself
@WilliamD - I do apologise, I am not saying you are ignorant, I meant you action could be seen as ...
@GraemeS 100% get what you are saying ... I am more looking at the fact also, homophobic behaviour is something that we want to eradicate from football, along with racism ... if you start with the 'nothing' comments, then maybe they don't evolve into anything bigger?
@GraemeS 100% get what you are saying ... I am more looking at the fact also, homophobic behaviour is something that we want to eradicate from football, along with racism ... if you start with the 'nothing' comments, then maybe they don't evolve into anything bigger?
As I said in my first post, the thing you definitely don't want to do is just ignore it. By reacting and being stern, you're making it very clear it's unacceptable and I don't think you need to use the red to do that.
Did you RC him?
I recall there was a new directive from the FA to report all homophobic abuse, even when you don't know who said it. While you cant RC them, the club was to be report to national FA.
Can anybody recall this instruction, or was it just sent to leagues?
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You either need to do nothing or send him off. Anything in between such as a caution or talking to could lead you into all kinds of problems.
If a complaint is made to the FA they would expect a red card. If you've spoken to him or cautioned you are effectively admitting you heard it, and therefore could be charged with failing to proficiently applying the laws of the game. Whereas if you do nothing at all you have the get out that you didn't hear it. I do speak with some authority here as I was subject to disciplinary action for cautioning someone who swore at me, and that didn't involve homophobic, racist or sexist comments.
If a complaint is made to the FA they would expect a red card. If you've spoken to him or cautioned you are effectively admitting you heard it, and therefore could be charged with failing to proficiently applying the laws of the game. Whereas if you do nothing at all you have the get out that you didn't hear it. I do speak with some authority here as I was subject to disciplinary action for cautioning someone who swore at me, and that didn't involve homophobic, racist or sexist comments.
OK. Which?
mikedn
Referee/Mentor
Why would i do nothing !! i would give him a public rebuke so all players know it would not be tolerated inclusive of " even though you did not call anybody directly a queer"
No i would not send him off unless he directly called a player a queer....
Padfoot
The Persecuted One
So what is it then?
mikedn
Referee/Mentor
In what was described initially.... i would give him a bollocking, and a warning but no card
No, it is a homophobic comment. Granted a low level one, but it still ticks the box.
If there is a complaint that the FA act on then you have massively shot him in the foot by warning or cautioning him. That says that you were aware of the words but didn't issue the mandatory red card. And these days it is mandatory as any kind of discrimination is a total no no and you would be thrown to the wolves.
If there is a complaint that the FA act on then you have massively shot him in the foot by warning or cautioning him. That says that you were aware of the words but didn't issue the mandatory red card. And these days it is mandatory as any kind of discrimination is a total no no and you would be thrown to the wolves.
The directive actually came into effect about 2 years ago (so I believe this is season three) and supports inclusivity for all in football. That means if a comment is made which is discriminatory in relation to one of the nine protected characteristics set out in the Equality Act of 2010, then it must be reported as OFFINABUS. In general,offenders can expect a doubling of the standard punishment subject to a minimum of a 5 game suspension. We had two teams who joined our league this season who had a player on 6 and 7 match suspensions relating to charges of this nature.
You either dismiss or you send in a report stating that it has been brought to your attention but you did not hear/see it. if you do not do either of these things, then it is you who can end up in trouble.
These answers sound like they are coming from a lawyer defending the referee. They are very informative and clearly grounded in experience. But I'd really like to know what you you would have done. Red card or nothing?
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