A&H

Open Age The Curse of St Peters

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Dylan_V

New Member
Level 6 Referee
Round 3 of Local League Division 2, with two of the top three teams playing each other (for confidential purposes, Blues (Home) vs Yellows (Away)), at a local field, 'St Peters' Recreation Ground (again, anonymised for confidential purposes).

I have had history on this pitch, the last four games resulted in the following;
- Match 1 - Escorted from changing rooms, threatened several times
- Match 2 - Postponement due to the lines not being visible
- Match 3 - 2 dismissals to away team (suspected of being under the influence of drugs)
- Match 4 (Today) - 6 Yellows, 2 Reds and a Misconduct (All but one yellow card to the away team)

Focusing on today's game, the team is well known as a pain to referee. It is one of those teams that you can have excellent game, but will still walk off the field wondering what warranted their collective conduct.

The second half consisted of a end-to-end game, of which tempers flared, and at one point a mass confrontation occured (mostly handbags, of which I cautioned the main culprits); however the Away Manager punched a substitute, which escalated the situation. I removed him from the vicinity, to which he responded with "you're a f*****g useless c**t, no wonder you get assessed every week", before reiterating "f*****g c**t" (in addition, he returned to the vicinity at half time, apologies and asked whether he could return, which I denied). I felt I had a mixed first half (made excellent key decisions, but missed smaller fouls which escalated into more significant issues), and realised that I needed to tighten up second half to ensure I was on top of things.

Within the first 10 minutes of the second half, I cautioned the two main away culprits for dissent (10 & 7), and the home team managed to secure a 2-3 scoreline with 10 minutes to go. On the 88th minute, Yellow 7 delibarately tripped a player, making no attempt to play the ball, and I gave him a second caution, of which he responded "you useless c**t, you've never watched a game of football in your life". This then resulted in the aggressive approach from Yellow 12 who shouted "You are a two-bobbed c**t" twice. He provided false names twice, before I sent him off, and he said the same comment, before proceeding with "you're f*****g s**t, I'm going to bang you out after this game".

The game finished 2-3, and the Home Team stated that this happens every week against the Away Team. I moved towards the changing rooms and I was approach by Yellow 12 who said "You got bullied at school you did", you're f*****g s**t". I then got into the changing rooms, and whilst getting changed, the Yellow 12 appeared in the doorway and stated "You can understand why I'm frustrated Ref..." and I interrupted him, stated that the game was finished and will not be discussed further and he left the room. A minute later, the Away Manager appeared in the doorway and said "Seriously Dylan, in all honesty I think you need to give it up, because you were awful out there". I stated that I did not appreciate the disrespect he has shown and ordered him to leave, stating that all incidents would be recorded in the reports and do not warrant further discussion. He left by stating "You will never referee another game for us in your life" (considering they are local league Div 2, I found this relatively funny). I then left the changing rooms, and headed home. Interestingly, I found a Facebook Friend Request from a Yellow Sub once I got home (which I declined).

It is a shame, as the league is a fantastic league with excellent conduct, but is let down by a few teams.

A few points to open out the discussion;
  • How should I report each incident? (My thoughts are to write the initial reports, and separate misconducts for each altercation)
  • When a team loses complete discipline, how do you change your game?
  • I am planning to send a complaint report to the league to inform them of my dissatisfaction with their conduct. Should I undertake any further action?
  • I obviously now have a reputation with this team. When I get them again (which I would like to), should I start the game as a new game, or start in a more authoritative manner than usual?
Rant over, my apologies for the length, but I hope it provides sufficient depth. Please feel free to pose any questions for further discussion.
 
The Referee Store
I think that as a matter of principle, blowing the final whistle at that comment is the best option. However, if it is likely that you'll take a beating from blowing up (because he'll be more likely to do it then) then I'd continue. All depends on the game and how you feel at the time. Sometimes that feeling is difficult to put into words so I don't suppose many of us if any at all will know what he's been through. Having been through a number of tough games however I know how tough it is - don't follow that managers advice though, whatever you do! Report all to the FA in different misconduct reports for each person. More paperwork for the FA so they'll be more likely to see it and do something about it. Sorry to hear about a tough experience mate - keep your chin up! :)
 
Sorry to hear that Dylan - my advice is to put everything into the relevant reports (misconduct for the managers - and for the player who came into the dressing room). I would also ring your FA - either the Appointments Secretary or the Development Officer - probably the latter - and explain all this to them. You shouldn't end up feeling intimidated and they have a duty to deal with this kind of behaviour.

Someone in my district was banned for life recently for aggression towards a referee - it sounds like the behaviour you experienced was getting pretty close to that and it shouldn't be tolerated.
 
Dylan_V said:
A few points to open out the discussion;
  • How should I report each incident? (My thoughts are to write the initial reports, and separate misconducts for each altercation)
  • When a team loses complete discipline, how do you change your game?
  • I am planning to send a complaint report to the league to inform them of my dissatisfaction with their conduct. Should I undertake any further action?
  • I obviously now have a reputation with this team. When I get them again (which I would like to), should I start the game as a new game, or start in a more authoritative manner than usual?
Rant over, my apologies for the length, but I hope it provides sufficient depth. Please feel free to pose any questions for further discussion.
Click to expand...

1. Yes, report all the instances at the changing rooms as a seperate report. County may well charge both the Away Manager & Yellow 12 seperately, then tag on a club misconduct report for good measure. Recently, a player in NRCFA got 112 days ban for something similiar (which under the Standard Code of Rules for leagues - give the league an option to exlcude him for a further time, if he is banned for either > 112 days or 10 games within a 2 year period).

2. If you feel that a team has lost their discipline that they are a danger to you, the opposition or each other - STOP THE MATCH AND GO HOME. Your safety & the safety of the players is paramount.

3. As has been said previously, unfortunately the league has little power to deal with clubs like this. The FA have the power to fine, the leagues cannot. Players can only be charged once and this is done by the CFA, so double jeopardy applies. Their power comes from proposing eviction of the team from the league at the AGM.

4. The best way of dealing with teams like this is to start as a b88888d from the begining. If they realise that their actions will cost them heavily (£) they may take the view not to do anything at all. If not, it will be expensive and at least you are protecting some other referee in the future (as these players may be suspended).
One piece of advice, would be not to play an advantage for them. This eliminates a potential flashpoint for you.

You did everything you needed to do. Well Done, now do the paperwork.
 
Sounds like you did well but, in future for your own safety, blow up and leave if you get threatened again like that.

Sounds like a disgusting team.

File each report individually and preceded each "punched" with the word violently and forcefully. Make sure you make it clear what the threat to you was and that you felt very intimidated.

Basically do what you can to get this team binned. It amazes me that if this is a regular thing that they still have a team. Maybe other referees haven't reported it, so make sure you do and make it water tight.

Teams like this WILL deny everything and you may well find yourself called to a personal hearing.

Make it water tight. Memorise the match. Memorise your report and be prepared for a call from the CFA.

Good luck Dylan and I hope the team gets fines and bans rained down on them like confetti.

Keep whistling. ALL of us on here have been told we are useless and to hang up the whistle. NONE of us are useless and all are, or have the potential to be very good referees.

Good luck and update us what happens.
 
Thank you all for your responses, guidance and support; great to see fellow colleagues sticking up for each other.

First of all, with regards to abandoning the game, by this point the three main instigators (Manager, Yellow 7 & Yellow 12) were all removed from the vicinity, and with two minutes remaining, I believed I would let the game run till the end; however your points are certainly valid as the game could have entered Extra Time, which could have made the situation a whole lot worse. Worth noting however, is that the player was walking away from the vicinity when he said it, and turned round to make the comment. Although I did feel intimidated, I didn't at any point feel that he would follow-up with it; although that isn't really the point.

@lincs22 , thanks for the guidance, especially on Point 4.
@HertsFinest , appreciate the guidance on reporting - I'll utilise my refereeing network to obtain peer reviews to make sure they're watertight.

I have had a similar (worse) situation before (1st Match mentioned above at St Peters), and whereas the previous fixture knocked my confidence a bit, this one did not do so. Will resume business as usual tomorrow evening (weather permitting!) at Langford!
 
I'd also mention the Facebook friend request to the County FA. IMO it's a type of threatening behaviour and opens the floodgates if you'd have accepted it. Are they/is he phishing for information with which to abuse you further?
 
David Sutton said:
I'd also mention the Facebook friend request to the County FA. IMO it's a type of threatening behaviour and opens the floodgates if you'd have accepted it. Are they/is he phishing for information with which to abuse you further?
Click to expand...

Quite right. Facebook is personal and detached from football. Adding you as a friend is clearly intimidation to me and threatening behaviour. No reason to do it other than to make you intimidated.
 
HertsFinest said:
Quite right. Facebook is personal and detached from football. Adding you as a friend is clearly intimidation to me and threatening behaviour. No reason to do it other than to make you intimidated.
Click to expand...

Interesting thoughts. The individual involved did not take place in any significant or notable incidents; however did come on as a substitute before the 2 sending offs (maybe he made the friend request as a laugh? Who knows). I shall liaise with Herts FA and discuss whether they wish to take this into consideration.

Will keep you all posted on the outcomes.
 
Ooh a fellow Hertsarian :)

Definitely mention it as its very wrong to continue communication with you (all be it a friend request) once you've left the ground!
 
All,

This evening I submitted (via the Whole Game System), the following;

5 Yellows (4x C1, 1x C2)
2 Reds (1x S6 & 1x S7 - consisting of C2, C1 and a following S6)
5 Misconducts - 3 definite (altercations in changing rooms), two questionable (Facebook request, and Manager making a comment to a fellow player "I didn't spit at him, I punched him in the balls. If I had spat at him, you'd know about it").

I shall also be sending an Email to the league to inform them of the team's conduct. Last time I had a game of this magnitude, the team were kicked out of the league. I expect a mindless Personal Hearing for the conduct of the coach, which will be my first, but I shall let you know whether I hear anything further on the matter.

Thanks to all for your help!
 
I saw Chelsea finalised the Cuardrado deal and that was it for me, switched it off. Nothing major seems to happen these days! I havent even checked the news but I assume the Cuadrado deal was the biggest of the night?
 
Indeed it was. Sky Sports needed something to rage about, and Aaron Lennon to Everton, Carlton Cole failing to join WBA an a failed West Ham attempt to obtain Adebayor was the best they could do!
 
jofusref said:
why arent the league committee doing something about this team
Click to expand...
Technically, they have not broken any league rules!

There breaches are of LOTG or FA rules, so only the county FA is allowed to discipline them. Once they have dealt with them, the league is barred from taking further action on the same offences under the double jeopardy rules.

From being a referee and in a league committee, this is fustrating but those are the rules we have to follow. Breaching them will result in the club being let off any league penalty, the league being fined by the CFA, and worst case, the league having to pay compensation to the team...

Leagues have to follow the rules even if players & teams don't.
 
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