The Ref Stop

Swearing

V

Viking

Well-Known Member
First OA game at grassroots for a while at the weekend. I was astonished at the low level constant swearing going on. All this wouldn't particularly bother me except for the fact that there was a junior game about to start on the next pitch. A lot of it was said when the ball was out of play. The first time a huge shout of 'Let's make this fuking count', (at least that's what I thought he said), whilst the ball was in play, I blew up for an IDFK and loudly made the point of foul language because of the juniors. Swearing dramatically decreased but was still low level audible when ball out of play.

Midway into the second half, a massive player shouts, 'That's never a ****ing foul ref, that's rubbish'. Sin binned straight away - amid shouts of that's harsh ref, a sin bin and a booking. Turns out they hadn't seen a yellow followed by the two arm gesture to the sideline and thought a double whammy. Then multiple shouts of how long's a sin bin followed by questions every minute until the ten were up.

From a swearing point of view, I assume this is just accepted by all refs. From my sin bin action, I wonder if anyone would have taken this as a red straight away or even just 'play on'?
 
The Ref Stop
While I respect the intention, don’t award IDFKs for - presumably, at a stretch - USB, without issuing a caution or more. If persistent language is becoming a problem, like in this instance of nearby minors (or often, backing on to a row of gardens)... stamp it out early on with a “this isn’t acceptable” and remind both captains of their/teams responsibilities in maintaining the integrity of the game.

With a sin bin, if it gets to a stage where it’s annoying being asked. I’ll go to the manager and say “there’s X left, I’ll tell you when, my watch will let me know” and that’s the end of it. Don’t get dragged back in, and don’t end up answering or explaining each time to multiple people, teams use this to undermine a referee.

I personally don’t find the F-word on its own abusive, offensive or insulting but it’s all about context. If used aggressively then a player should expect to walk.

We’re refereeing frustrated adults in a competitive environment and sometimes our tolerance levels should reflect that.

Amidst this rambling I’m sure I had a point but it’s my train stop coming up 😂😂
 
When I've done senior football and players are swearing really loud I start by saying politely stuff like tone the language please guys , I keep politely doing that and eventually is drops off. I understand that there's competitive men on the pitch and to be fair it's language most of us use in every other sentence so I have quite a high tolerance level.

I refereed a youth game the other day u15, 1st v 2nd so it was turbo charged. Around 5 min in I gave a foul against the attacker and one of his own defenders belted out F--K OFF from around 40 yds away. I blew up really loud called him and his captain over, gave them both the sternests of tellings off. Player for shouting that out ( he wasn't telling me to FO ) and the captain for not calling him out on it despite being told to deal with it in the coin toss. Not a single player swore again on either side for the rest of the match . Could anyone have complained had I sent him off? No, should I have sent him off ? Maybe , did i deal effectively with foul language? I'd say so. The league doesn't use sin bins
 
I don’t think @Mintyref changed his batteries in 4 seasons so he never picked up on the welcoming words often thrown in his direction!
But seriously, if you’re going to get on a pedestal and preach that zero swear words are allowed then you’ve maybe found the wrong career! I’m not saying don’t act on swearing but you ain’t ever stopping it fully happening and your club marks will be drained! Good luck with that crusade!
 
Did you see the size of the batteries for my 1985 hearing aid? Size of a bloody suitcase.......change them, left the buggars at home.......did well with the lip reading though.....
 
Mintyref said:
Did you see the size of the batteries for my 1985 hearing aid? Size of a bloody suitcase.......change them, left the buggars at home.......did well with the lip reading though.....
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How many players said they’d See You Next Thursday.... 😂
 
With swearing make sure they know you don't want it at the first occurrence. Most of my games are at public parks so it's easy to say 'there's kids listening to this'
Beyond that I may do a run past and remind the offender/captain
 
Viking said:
First OA game at grassroots for a while at the weekend. I was astonished at the low level constant swearing going on. All this wouldn't particularly bother me except for the fact that there was a junior game about to start on the next pitch. A lot of it was said when the ball was out of play. The first time a huge shout of 'Let's make this fuking count', (at least that's what I thought he said), whilst the ball was in play, I blew up for an IDFK and loudly made the point of foul language because of the juniors. Swearing dramatically decreased but was still low level audible when ball out of play.

Midway into the second half, a massive player shouts, 'That's never a ****ing foul ref, that's rubbish'. Sin binned straight away - amid shouts of that's harsh ref, a sin bin and a booking. Turns out they hadn't seen a yellow followed by the two arm gesture to the sideline and thought a double whammy. Then multiple shouts of how long's a sin bin followed by questions every minute until the ten were up.

From a swearing point of view, I assume this is just accepted by all refs. From my sin bin action, I wonder if anyone would have taken this as a red straight away or even just 'play on'?
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Well done for the sin bin and taking action about general low level swearing. I have seen a lot of referees ignore it which is not ideal. Sin bin was correct for me. He was directing it as your decision which makes it dissent. If he makes it personal and direct it at you ("you are a f...") then you can think about OFFINABUS and red.

I agree with @Grayson on the general searing handling. You really only have a few options and punishing it with just an IFK is not one of them.
  • You can allow play to continue and have word on the run with the player.
  • You can wait for the next stoppage and have a 'public' word with the player and restart according how the ball went out of play
  • Yo can stop play for USB, caution player and restart with IFK
  • You can stop play for OFFINABUS, send off player and restart with IFK.
I usually use the first two if its in frustration or it is general low level industrial language swearing.
 
Agree with others, you can't stop the game for swearing and restart with an IDFK without a caution or sending off, there is just nothing in law that supports this. You are stopping play for an act of misconduct, and therefore a minimum of a caution is required.

If I was worried about the junior game next door I'd be tempted to call in both captains and let them know my concerns and ask them to reign their player's language in. If they don't then at least you had warned them, but it is still potentially causing you a problem. Using the comment used in the OP, "let's make this f***ing count", if you stop play for that the only real option is a red for OFFINABUS as it doesn't fit into any of the caution offences. And that would be a very, very difficult red card to sell.
 
RustyRef said:
Using the comment used in the OP, "let's make this f***ing count", if you stop play for that the only real option is a red for OFFINABUS as it doesn't fit into any of the caution offences.
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Disagree. It fits under USB. You can use "bringing the game into disrepute", but if you don't like that, the laws have made USB open ended and you can make your own reason.
 
one said:
Disagree. It fits under USB. You can use "bringing the game into disrepute", but if you don't like that, the laws have made USB open ended and you can make your own reason.
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I think the phrase you're looking for is, "shows a lack of respect for the game." "Bringing the game into disrepute" is a phrase used in the FA disciplinary code (and usually applied to managers and team officials) but it's not part of the LotG.
 
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I can understand the reasoning for trying to stop low level swearing near a junior game but if I'm honest, it'll just open up a can of worms giving a free kick against it. Both last week and next weeks ref won't do it and there's nothing really against it in the laws of the game. It's been mentioned about USB being left open, but I still think it's more hassle than it's worth. I think the fact you pointed out it was low level would be an indicator to me that it's worth leaving as well.

Agree on your decision for the sin bin though. Cut that out nice and early
 
Many thanks for all the responses. Really appreciated. Got me thinking that I’d just made a new law up – which probably wouldn’t have been the first time. Having re-read Law 12, I was either originally told or perhaps just assumed, that other verbals included the situation I outlined above and again below.

To confirm, the low level swearing is not what I’m talking about – that’s a given and can potentially be managed but I’m not going overboard on it. The situation I was talking about was swearing loudly whilst the ball was in play, really to make a point about not screaming foul language whilst a junior game was going on, with the hopeful result that the players would also be deterred from using foul language loudly when the ball wasn’t in play.

So, for several respondents to then state that I couldn’t stop the game unless I also cautioned/red carded, rather disturbed me. I therefore emailed IFAB and David Elleray responded:

Dear Mr Elleray

Could you please confirm the IFAB expectation of the following:

Law 12.2

• is guilty of dissent, using offensive, insulting or abusive language and/or gestures or other verbal offences

Under ‘other verbal offences’, would it be appropriate to award an IDFK against a player who shouts loudly, ‘Let’s win this ****ing ball’, when the ball is in play and, in this instance, there was a junior game being played on the adjacent pitch. The player had previously been warned about vociferous use of foul language.

Alternatively, is there no way in law that I can sanction against the use of foul language, without terming it abusive and having to show a red? What is envisaged under 'other verbal offences'.

Regards

Andy

And David Elleray’s response was:

Dear Andy

Thank you for your question.

If you decided that the language used was not offensive but was a verbal offence then you would, within the 'spirit' of Law 12 be justified in awarding an IDFK

Best wishes

David

David Elleray

Technical Director of The IFAB

The upshot appears to be that under the ‘spirit’ of Law 12, referees can deem non-offensive swearing as verbal offences and award an IDFK without the need to caution (at least that's my assumption). That ‘spirit’ term does appear to give a lot of leeway to referees for, dare I say, making up laws. Or alternatively it gives leeway for referees to give sanctions where they justifiably sees it fit. And I like that. The LOTG can’t envisage every situation but provides a framework for dealing with it.

Would welcome further comment from those who state YC/RC must be produced if the game is stopped for a verbal offence. Is the card issue something that requires further clarification from IFAB because it could be said that the response was silent on it, rather than positively agreeing that no YC/RC need follow?
 
I don't know the spirit of which part of law 12 allows this. Mr. Elleray seems to have very short memory.

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Thanks One. A month's a long time in football! Perhaps David Elleray's saying that the 'spirit' includes verbal offences that are not listed in Law 12 and would therefore include my situation. What I would've wanted him to clarify on was the YC/RC point but I don't think my question was as specific as it could have been on that point. I can see that the wording of his response is correct in both yours and mine, only he didn't tag on the bit about having to YC as well.

I'll have to go back for a second confirmation.
 
I was nearly certain that the reply would be as was emailed to you One. However, this is what happened:

David
Thanks again for your response. Just to confirm one further point please. In the situation that I outlined, an IDFK is awarded for ‘other verbal offence’. Under the cautions list, I can’t see any mandatory caution for ‘other verbal offence’. Therefore, would I be correct in awarding the IDFK and not cautioning?
Regards

And the response was:

Dear Andrew

If you wanted to issue a YC then it could be for unsporting behaviour: shows a lack of respect for the game.

Best wishes
David
David Elleray
Technical Director of The IFAB

So, that for me confirms that I can stop play for verbals and give an IDFK without having to caution. If I wanted to, I could caution under USB. And having read 12.2 and the cautions again and again, there is nothing in the wording of 12.2 or the cautions that states I have to give a caution for a verbal offence. I therefore think this advice provides more leeway and common sense and is the correct one to follow. I'll see what my Refs Association says tonight at the Xmas Curry.
 
I think it's a bit fussy to be policing language in this day and age. Especially things like "Let's win this effing ball", it's a bit old fashioned hat for me. :cool:
 
Viking said:
So, that for me confirms that I can stop play for verbals and give an IDFK without having to caution.
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I don't read him saying that at all. He told you what the caution could be for. Especially in light of his response to @one , I think you're over reading this response.
 
Even David Elleray is making it up these days! He probably doesn't literally agree with parts of the book and I'm sure he wasn't responsible for drafting it, so I can't fault him for giving his take. Probably didn't realise excerpts from his replies would be devoured on tinternet
 
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socal lurker said:
I don't read him saying that at all. He told you what the caution could be for. Especially in light of his response to @one , I think you're over reading this response.
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I read that as what the caution would be for IF I wanted to caution. The option is clearly there not to caution at all.
 
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