The Ref Stop

Swansea v Sunderland

SionTHFC

SionTHFC

Member
Apparently Graham Scott has had an absolute shocker in this game, I've not seen the highlights yet but it should be interesting to watch. The 3 main "Mistakes" mentioned on Sky Sports were:

1. The penalty awarded to Swansea, no contact with the attacker.

2. The decision to dismiss Kyle Naughton was an incorrect one.

3. Jermaine Defoe was clearly offside for his second goal.

We can discuss these three after the highlights become available.
 
The Ref Stop
Just watched on MOTD.

Pen looked soft, Swansea player tripped himself up.

Red card- silly challenge, foot was high and studs were showing. Scream from the Sunderland player as he hit the deck possibly influenced the decision. For me it's one of those orange card tackles. The pundits on MOTD have just said its not even a foul!

Offside, hardly the refs fault is it? AR was well off the second last defender which is possibly why he didn't see and give it.

Not the easiest intro to the premier league but it certainly wasn't the dire performance I've read/heard about.
 
Interesting offside decision against Swansea. The Sunderland goalkeeper had caught the ball but decided to drop it to avoid possibly going over the line.
 
Imo red was spot on studs up and dangerous, Defoe was offside for his 1st but not for 2nd & 3rd & the Swansea offside is the most obvious one you're likely to see
 
2 of Defoe's goals looked marginally offside with the benefit of replays, but were tight. Very poor defending and keeping by Swansea for the 2nd, obviously convinced Defoe was offside they gave up in expectation of a decision that never came.

Swansea penalty, minimal contact from behind by Wes Brown, complete air kick.

Kyle Naughton red card, foot was high and studs up, got plenty of the ball, but not a great challenge all the same. Probably will appeal, who knows with the appeals panel these days which way it will go.

Agree with Bester on the Swansea offside. Sunderland keeper has made a complete mess of it. Yes the Swansea player was in an offside position from the initial shot, but the keeper appeared to gain full control of the ball before dropping it into the path of Swansea attacker. Think Sunderland got away with it big style.

Tough night for Graham Scott on his Premier League debut. The media will hang him out to dry as they always do, but somewhat harshly for me.
 
bester said:
Interesting offside decision against Swansea. The Sunderland goalkeeper had caught the ball but decided to drop it to avoid possibly going over the line.
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Great spot. On reflection I think you're right .. takes play into a different phase rather than simply a regulation save.

No penalty for me . Red card was a yellow for me as he played the ball so cleanly .. still stupid to go in studs up like that though. And all three Defoe goals were borderline offsides but wouldn't rate any of them as a significant mistake in a world where benefit of doubt goes to attacker.
 
I thought the red looked credible - it's a caution at least, possible red. His studs are showing, he's stamped through the ball. May not have made full contact with the opponent but it's dangerous.
 
I haven't seen the red card offence yet, but please do not fall into the pundit's trap of making any statement about playing the ball - it is completely irrelevant.
 
bester said:
Interesting offside decision against Swansea. The Sunderland goalkeeper had caught the ball but decided to drop it to avoid possibly going over the line.
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Would you have penalised the goalkeeper IF he'd picked the ball up again? (i.e. touches the ball again with his hands after he has released it from his possession and before it has touched another player)
 
Monotone Whistle said:
I haven't seen the red card offence yet, but please do not fall into the pundit's trap of making any statement about playing the ball - it is completely irrelevant.
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Indeed. I had a very similar incident last season, when an away forward chased a bouncing ball going towards the home keeper from a back pass. The keeper ran out of his area to kick it but before he could do so the forward slid in with one foot straight out a foot off the ground, knee locked, and played the ball towards the goal. The GK kicked through, but the ball was no longer there. Instead he kicked the bottom of the forward's foot. The forward's momentum / locked leg and the straightening of the GK's leg meant that the goalkeeper somersaulted straight over the forward, landing on his back six feet beyond him. Initial reactions were that the GK's team mates were horrified at the challenge, but that quickly changed to "but he played the ball!" and they then thought it was just one of those things that happen.
I think it's fair to say that everyone on the pitch was surprised when the red came out - one of them did say "but it was only one foot!" - but it was the worst challenge I've seen in several years and obviously a straight red. The keeper was taken off in an ambulance with serious ligament damage. The one in this game is similar although the force is not as high. I'd consider that a red card all day. Any challenge where you challenge an opponent with force, with your foot stamping down and your studs going straight down towards the opponent is dangerous.
On my game, the home team manager told me after the game "good game ref. If you don't want to put the red card in, we won't mention it!" They thought that since he'd played the ball it was an accident and just one of those things that happen. After all, that's what the experts say, isn't it!
Watching Sky while the game was going on, I thought the comments these idiots were making about Graham Scott were completely inexcusable, even if they had a point and the decisions were wrong. Having seen what they consider to be a wrong red card (not even a foul, according to one of these "experts!") I think that they've lost any credibility they may have had regarding any other decision made in the game.
 
It's hardly a difficult decision to "sell" he caught in both hands and deliberately dropped it. Only saw is once so it maybe it wasn't as obvious as it looked.
 
SM said:
I thought the red looked credible - it's a caution at least, possible red. His studs are showing, he's stamped through the ball. May not have made full contact with the opponent but it's dangerous.
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For challenges like this one, advice that I've always been given by more experienced refs to date is

A) Contact just with player - Red
B) Contact just with ball - Yellow and a strong word
C) Contact with both player and ball - Take your pick of the two but probably Red.

As with all generalisations, not always helpful but I've found it a decent rule of thumb. So in this case I'd have gone Yellow
 
My two biggest problem with the pundits here was their refusal to call a spade a spade, and the editing of the red card replay (MoTD).

1: The penalty - he's conned the referee. He knows Brown is there and splash. I might get a yellow, I get a penalty.
2: The edit took out the scream from the Sunderland player. I'm certain that played a part, but to edit that out is disingenuous. It didn't look good, but replays show any touch was minimal, but I'm convinced that scream sold it as red.

But of course as ex-pros they know players never cheat, so would never suggest that :mad:
 
206eddy said:
Just watched on MOTD.

Pen looked soft, Swansea player tripped himself up.

Red card- silly challenge, foot was high and studs were showing. Scream from the Sunderland player as he hit the deck possibly influenced the decision. For me it's one of those orange card tackles. The pundits on MOTD have just said its not even a foul!

Offside, hardly the refs fault is it? AR was well off the second last defender which is possibly why he didn't see and give it.

Not the easiest intro to the premier league but it certainly wasn't the dire performance I've read/heard about.
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Not his debut !!
2 games last season and 3 or 4 already this season !
 
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