A&H

Substitution incident

As an after thought, if we are saying the substitution has not been completed until the sub enters the field of play, what we do if:

Subbed player leaves FOP, but before sub enters field of play (i.e substitution has not been completed) subbed player gives the middle finger at an opponent from off the FoP?
 
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My interpretation on this was not meant to be fact, although it seems other's take on it is very much black or white
 
As an after thought, if we are saying the substitution has not been completed until the sub enters the field of play, what we do if:

Subbed player leaves FOP, but before sub enters field of play (i.e substitution has not been completed) subbed player gives the middle finger at an opponent from off the FoP?



for me the answer is there, the substitution has not been complete, so, red card player who is now off, and they are down to 10.
 
Agree. The player is a player until the sub becomes a player. And the sub has to step on the field (which includes toes touching the line) to become a player. I think this one is black and white in the Laws.


If its going to happen at all, it be more likely say if the other player hobbled off at the other side of the park from the dug outs
So, he is now off, gives his gesture, but new guy is not on yet....
 
the middle finger gesture at an opposing player is the very definition of, offensive gesture?
Where I am, we had a spate of, 3/4 nearly in a row, about 4/5 years ago, all of them caught on film and all of them correctly dismissed and fully supported by the powers that be.

Change it slightly, he is going off, turns to you as ref and makes same gesture to you? Surely 100/100 are going to dismiss.
Sorry but I just find a middle finger laughable, I see it as pathetic rather than offensive, almost childish.
 
Sorry but I just find a middle finger laughable, I see it as pathetic rather than offensive, almost childish.


So you would not dismiss a player doing it to you???!!!!
at risk of opening the acceptable/unacceptable thing up, I find the magic the beans gesture childish but its still getting a red !!

pray tell what you class as offensive gesture if its not the player showing you,(and for everybody else to see) to f off
least when he says it you can make excuses that you might not have heard it....
 
So you would not dismiss a player doing it to you???!!!!
at risk of opening the acceptable/unacceptable thing up, I find the magic the beans gesture childish but its still getting a red !!

pray tell what you class as offensive gesture if its not the player showing you,(and for everybody else to see) to f off
least when he says it you can make excuses that you might not have heard it....
Spot on. I can’t see how you couldn’t send him off for it
 
There is something implicit in the definition of when substitutions has been completed which some seem to miss. It can not be completed if the procedure has not been followed correctly. If you take "The substitution is completed when a substitute enters the field of play;" in isolation then you should also accept it as completed if the sub enters the FOP from the goal line (against the procedure).

So in OP because the procedure was not followed correctly, the substitution is not completed. The sub is still a sub and the player still a player. Manage it according to context if you wish but the technical correct decision (and my decision) for the OP is a red card for the finger saluting player and his team now plays with one fewer player.

Now technically you can not caution the sub for entering without permission because you gave him permission. I suppose you can say the permission implied for him to enter after the player leaves. But that is a long stretch. If you really want to you can caution him for USB (not following procedure). But for me the sensible thing to do here is not to caution him.
 
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As an after thought, if we are saying the substitution has not been completed until the sub enters the field of play, what we do if:

Subbed player leaves FOP, but before sub enters field of play (i.e substitution has not been completed) subbed player gives the middle finger at an opponent from off the FoP?
Similar to above. But I will also post a Quiz question published by fifa 2012-13 which should still be valid as the procedure has not changed. I suspect there will be something similar in the old Q&A as well.

Q: Player No 8 is being substituted, replaced by player No 12. Before No 12 enters, player No 8 spits at the assistant referee. What decision should the referee make?
A: He should send off player No 8. The team will now play with 10 players. The team may choose not to substitute at this time or player No 12 now must substitute for a different player.
 
So you would not dismiss a player doing it to you???!!!!
at risk of opening the acceptable/unacceptable thing up, I find the magic the beans gesture childish but its still getting a red !!

pray tell what you class as offensive gesture if its not the player showing you,(and for everybody else to see) to f off
least when he says it you can make excuses that you might not have heard it....
In my head I'm picturing a petulant child of a man flipping me off. If he were to also shout expletives, it would change my opinion. You're right though, I should be sending him, but I'm just being honest that faced with that situation, I'd be reluctant to.
 
In my head I'm picturing a petulant child of a man flipping me off. If he were to also shout expletives, it would change my opinion. You're right though, I should be sending him, but I'm just being honest that faced with that situation, I'd be reluctant to.


For me, its not even if I wanted too, you would have x number of players pointing out what the player has done, given they saw it, and I dont think there is a choice, brave brave ref who explains to them that you are ok with it...
 
For me, its not even if I wanted too, you would have x number of players pointing out what the player has done, given they saw it, and I dont think there is a choice, brave brave ref who explains to them that you are ok with it...
Something I will learn with experience I'm guessing
 
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