The Ref Stop

Southend v Barnsley

Offisde or Not

  • Yep, lino spot on

    Votes: 3 23.1%

  • No, not offside for my liking.

    Votes: 10 76.9%
  • Total voters
    13
M

MKAhmad

Active Member
Level 6 Referee
Having a massive argument on twitter about this incident -
https://twitter.com/x/status/1068911307292856320

Lino appears to flag for the two attackers closer to the goal than the goalkeeper who is the second to last defender. Would assume this is for interfering with the defender's line of sight of the shot. Fans on twitter obviously clueless about the second defender rule and then arguing defenders are not interfering. So what do you make of it?
 
The Ref Stop
Looking at that the attackers appear to be impacting on the defenders ability to play the ball thus interfering with opponent.

In offside positions without doubt..
 
Have watched this over and over, they're in an offside position for sure but I'm not convinced they're interfering with play or an opponent. Seems like a fair goal from the angle I've seen. Willing to be persuaded otherwise.
 
alexgr said:
Have watched this over and over, they're in an offside position for sure but I'm not convinced they're interfering with play or an opponent. Seems like a fair goal from the angle I've seen. Willing to be persuaded otherwise.
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My whistle stays silent and my flag remains unmoved, any time I can't be certain an offence has occurred. From this replay, I can't be certain so the flag is motionless
 
Surely the offside attacker jumping at the original cross is offside and active because he jumps into a defender (and misses the ball).
This looks like a simple offside and a delayed flag to me.
 
santa sangria said:
Surely the offside attacker jumping at the original cross is offside and active because he jumps into a defender (and misses the ball).
This looks like a simple offside and a delayed flag to me.
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Am I missing something? He's a good yard or two onside at the time of the cross
 
santa sangria said:
Surely the offside attacker jumping at the original cross is offside and active because he jumps into a defender (and misses the ball).
This looks like a simple offside and a delayed flag to me.
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You've lost me
There's no offside offence here. Stand to be corrected, but to me it looks like the assistant has guessed; and guessed wrong at that
 
BCMilan said:
What interference ? I can't see the lino would have spotted that (if any) from there. I reckon he guessed !
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Lino quite right to flag. He is not guessing. He is telling the referee possible offside offence. Refs call from there.
 
The only category of offside that this could be, is "interfering with an opponent."

Under that category are:
1. preventing an opponent from playing or being able to play the ball by clearly obstructing the opponent’s line of vision
2. challenging an opponent for the ball
3. clearly attempting to play a ball which is close when this action impacts on an opponent
4. making an obvious action which clearly impacts on the ability of an opponent to play the ball

From what I see on the clip, the players in an offside position are not preventing the opponent from seeing the ball as it comes in, they don't challenge for it and they don't attempt to play it so for me, the first 3 are out. That leaves number 4.

If the words 'obvious' and 'clearly' were not included, I could see an argument for them having committed an offside offence under this sub-clause but having watched the clip several times I don't see 'an obvious action which clearly impacts on the ability of an opponent to play the ball' in what they do.

I've said this before but my reading of the law as it stands, along with the circulars issued about the offside law, gives me the distinct impression that the IFAB only want to penalise 'interfering with an opponent' when the physical ability of the opponent to play the ball is clearly and directly affected by the actions of the player in an offside position. I'm struggling to see the necessary level of interference in this clip.
 
JamesL said:
Lino quite right to flag. He is not guessing. He is telling the referee possible offside offence. Refs call from there.
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Sorry ! I disagree. If we start signalling for Possible offences in the area, we'll be flagging all day long. If he sees an interference offence, yep raise the flag and notify the ref. Other than that, I suggest keep it down. If not, the ref is going to assume you've actually seen an offence, and so will the crowd.
 
BCMilan said:
Sorry ! I disagree. If we start signalling for Possible offences in the area, we'll be flagging all day long. If he sees an interference offence, yep raise the flag and notify the ref. Other than that, I suggest keep it down. If not, the ref is going to assume you've actually seen an offence, and so will the crowd.
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Rubbish. Maybe at that level with comms its easier to communicate but certainly at the level 99% of us are reffing at I want my AR to talk to me about it. The AR is not in a position to determine if an offence has taken place the referee is. Each ref has 50% of the information (offside/interference) Its difficult for either referee to get the right decision with only half of the information so there has to be some communication about what just happened. You'll notice in the video the referee goes to talk to the AR and ultimately in that scenario the referee will decide whether the offence has occurred.
Generally speaking this is a standard pre match instruction for this exact scenario that I get from level 3 refs when lining and have started incorporating into my own.
From a side on view similar to what the AR saw I initially thought offside. Having seen the bbc highlights, more the refs view it is clear no offside has occurred. But I am expecting the AR to communicate with the ref there.
 
JamesL said:
Rubbish. Maybe at that level with comms its easier to communicate but certainly at the level 99% of us are reffing at I want my AR to talk to me about it. The AR is not in a position to determine if an offence has taken place the referee is. Each ref has 50% of the information (offside/interference) Its difficult for either referee to get the right decision with only half of the information so there has to be some communication about what just happened. You'll notice in the video the referee goes to talk to the AR and ultimately in that scenario the referee will decide whether the offence has occurred.
Generally speaking this is a standard pre match instruction for this exact scenario that I get from level 3 refs when lining and have started incorporating into my own.
From a side on view similar to what the AR saw I initially thought offside. Having seen the bbc highlights, more the refs view it is clear no offside has occurred. But I am expecting the AR to communicate with the ref there.
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I also thought the AR had guessed, but your post has put me straight. It does make sense to flag as the players in an offside position might have interfered. It's only with the second angle (which is closer to the referee's angle), could we determine that no offence took place. So it's worth flagging and having a mini review with the ref before awarding the goal
 
JamesL said:
Rubbish. Maybe at that level with comms its easier to communicate but certainly at the level 99% of us are reffing at I want my AR to talk to me about it. The AR is not in a position to determine if an offence has taken place the referee is. Each ref has 50% of the information (offside/interference) Its difficult for either referee to get the right decision with only half of the information so there has to be some communication about what just happened. You'll notice in the video the referee goes to talk to the AR and ultimately in that scenario the referee will decide whether the offence has occurred.
Generally speaking this is a standard pre match instruction for this exact scenario that I get from level 3 refs when lining and have started incorporating into my own.
From a side on view similar to what the AR saw I initially thought offside. Having seen the bbc highlights, more the refs view it is clear no offside has occurred. But I am expecting the AR to communicate with the ref there.
Click to expand...
Even with comms, I'd expect the flag to go up here. It makes the decision much more credible if the goal had to be disallowed. Allowing the goal if there was no interference (as with OP) is not a hard sell.
 
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