A&H

Sold down the river

ladbroke8745

RefChat Addict
During my game this evening, which I admit I didn't have the best of games but didn't exactly lose control, I had an assistant who was spring happy with his flag. And his was a naturally appointed one.

In the first half I thanked him for about 4 offsides that went up too quickly and the player not going for the ball.
In the 2nd half, he gave a free kick 10 yards from him when I shouted no. Thankfully the ball went out of play at the same moment so I went to have a quick chat just in case he saw something I didn't and he said he saw a pull on the shirt. Ok, I didn't see it but doesn't mean it didn't happen so went with him.
He didn't give any fouls afterwards though which I think this one made him think did he get it right.

However late on he gave an offside which I doubted but he is in line and I'm not. The ball fell to a striker who as soon as he received it, shot and scored. I blew on the whistle and gave the free kick. This caused mass hysteria.
I said to the captain who came and asked why it was chalked off and said it was offside. I said it is a tight angle and he is in line.
When back in changing rooms, he admitted to have got it wrong but didn't want to look foolish out there.
Should I have gone and spoken with him to confirm it as there was a guy the ball passed by who was offside but he didn't even attempt to take it.

Wouldn't have changed the result, it finished 4-0.

Oh, and to top it off, the final minute of the game, player tells me I have had a shocker seconds after he was tackled.
I said no, it was a good tackle.
He said I've not watched the same game as him then and said I was "****ing awful". I said to him " my advice is to be quiet, we have less than a minute to go". He replied "there's nothing stopping me saying what I want" so I said "oh isn't there, how about a caution for dissent if you dont be quiet". He then said "go on then".
Well, if you really want one....
Yellow for dissent.
Thank you muchly.
 
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Sounds like you had a relatively tough game and pulled through just fine with a few points to reflect on.

Agree with @CapnBloodbeard . In addtion in regards to the dissent at the end, i'd suggest lowering your tollorance, at least in that context. When a player tells me "you are f-ing awful" he is going in the book straight away, even if it is his first comment and the last minute of the game. In your case it had followed another negative comment and he was given another chance. Don't make it a debate, walk away or take decisive action.

I have handled situations that way plenty of time and still walked away feeling defeated despite the caution. In his mind the reason he was cautioned was because he asked you to do it so he was still in control.
 
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Shame on that AR, today now that emotions will have calmed down a bit, I would be giving him a call, and saying something along lines of, should we be on a game again and you know you have made an error out there, please tell me before I restart the game so I can, as per the lotg, change it to the right decision

For me that would be the sensible and mature way to move on

Nobody is saying mistakes dont happen and we have all froze at some point

Knowing what to do next time it happens to him will help him to develop too

You cant really be faulted for not going to speak to him tbh
 
Was the AR young, so didn't know any better? Or was he older and set in his ways?

My instructions are that I want a late flag that's right, not an early one that's right but wrong! If he didn't listen to my instructions and was going too early with the flag then I would have spoken to him at half time and asked him to count to three when flagging, to give him time to decide whether I want the flag or not. That's also the point about holding the flag in the up-field hand - it takes time to switch so that you flag with the hand nearer the goal line. You use this time to think about whether the decision is right / needed.

If you have doubts about his decisions then I don't think there's any harm in going near to him, and shouting across "all right, ***?" That then gives him a chance to call you across without looking foolish. You could then give the goal, and state that there was a player in an offside position, but you decided together that he wasn't interfering. This helps your teamwork mark and helps the AR develop.

He shouldn't be worried about calling you over - the important thing is getting the decision right. That's the message I'd get across to him.
I agree that you need to be in control of the player at the end, so lower your tolerance, even in the last minute.
 
During my game this evening, which I admit I didn't have the best of games but didn't exactly lose control, I had an assistant who was spring happy with his flag. And his was a naturally appointed one.

In the first half I thanked him for about 4 offsides that went up too quickly and the player not going for the ball.
In the 2nd half, he gave a free kick 10 yards from him when I shouted no. Thankfully the ball went out of play at the same moment so I went to have a quick chat just in case he saw something I didn't and he said he saw a pull on the shirt. Ok, I didn't see it but doesn't mean it didn't happen so went with him.
He didn't give any fouls afterwards though which I think this one made him think did he get it right.

However late on he gave an offside which I doubted but he is in line and I'm not. The ball fell to a striker who as soon as he received it, shot and scored. I blew on the whistle and gave the free kick. This caused mass hysteria.
I said to the captain who came and asked why it was chalked off and said it was offside. I said it is a tight angle and he is in line.
When back in changing rooms, he admitted to have got it wrong but didn't want to look foolish out there.
Should I have gone and spoken with him to confirm it as there was a guy the ball passed by who was offside but he didn't even attempt to take it.

Wouldn't have changed the result, it finished 4-0.

Oh, and to top it off, the final minute of the game, player tells me I have had a shocker seconds after he was tackled.
I said no, it was a good tackle.
He said I've not watched the same game as him then and said I was "****ing awful". I said to him " my advice is to be quiet, we have less than a minute to go". He replied "there's nothing stopping me saying what I want" so I said "oh isn't there, how about a caution for dissent if you dont be quiet". He then said "go on then".
Well, if you really want one....
Yellow for dissent.
Thank you muchly.

What was your brief to your ARs?

Did you speak to him at half time about his quick flag? If not, why not? There was your opportunity to offer some advice and prevent further issues.

If the FK is only 10 yds from the AR that is clearly within his ‘zone’.......why are you shouting no? Presumably from a further distance away?

If you weren’t sure of the offside goal, yes, go and speak to him before making your decision.

Once a player has called you ‘****ing awful’, why are you giving them further opportunities to abuse you?
That’s a yellow card, or potentially red if you’re particularly sensitive, no further discussion needed.
 
Be very careful cutting out free kicks that are clearly in your assistant's credible area, and 10 yards from him sounds to me like it was. If you were closer than him then it sounds to me like you were out of position as you are right on top of him and need to back off a bit.

For the offside then clearly if the assistant knew he was wrong at the time he should have corrected it before play restarted. But as others have said, you can't really go to talk to him unless you are sure he has got it wrong.
 
To answer some, with regards to the free kick, I was in a similar position distance wise to him but opposite side obviously with ball between us. During this period of play i kept close to play as there were a lot of bites of the ankles by one of the teams and wanted to be seen to be on top of it.
As said, he said it was a pull which i didn't see despite having a clear, unobstructed view.

As for the offside and my brief at beginning of game was to give no surprises. Give it a few seconds before flagging and be sure the person getting the decision against them has played the ball or had an impact in the play. Then said at half time that he is flagging too early and quickly and not giving himself time to think.

I didn't want to chat with him at the time of the decision as I felt he went quick to avoid doubt in a decision because of a goal being scored. But he didn't have the guts at the time to change his decision, in my opinion, if he felt he got it wrong. By I suppose we've all been there in 1 way or another.
 
I think he meant AR flagged it after he shouted no.

Exactly this.

I shouted no and then a second later he flags. Against my shout.

Potentially my fault again as, again at half time, I said to them that with teams questioning my decisions on that line where my AR were maybe to flag to help sell it.
One done it on a couple of fouls that were obvious to all but this one only flagged for this one which shot me down. Do I go with him or overrule and hurt his confidence in future decisions.
 
If you've already shouted no, then you stick to that. AR has done the wrong thing in flagging after you've shouted.
If you haven't, then you usually want to go with the AR unless you're really sure it's the complete wrong decision.
 
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Noted for future.
Not had many middles with neutrals but I find overruling them often can be a negative on them.
Had it happen to me when ref basically thought it was his show.
I agree unless I believe its completely wrong decision by the AR I'd go with them. If its wrong I'd say thanks and keep going.
 
Noted for future.
Not had many middles with neutrals but I find overruling them often can be a negative on them.
Had it happen to me when ref basically thought it was his show.
I agree unless I believe its completely wrong decision by the AR I'd go with them. If its wrong I'd say thanks and keep going.

That would be because basically it his ‘show’.......as an assistant you are there to assist not insist.

With the foul.....you are 20 yds from your AR? Way too close......
Also what did you brief your ARs with regards to fouls?
Personally for a potential foul that close to my AR I’m giving them first bite of the cherry......look at them if they don’t react then I’ll make the call....avoids the messy business of having to overrule etc
 
I said if it's credible to give and you think I've not seen it then flag but look at me and my positioning first.
I reminded him at half time to back up once I've blown if it close to them even if they think it's not due to the nature of the home side complaining of fouls against them and if they'd flag it helps sell it. First half he was reluctant then second half he done that.
But it's something for me to learn as I go into my next game.
 
can the incident be compared to the recently posted Craig Pawson pk?

Clearly we dont know what was said on the comms but I be guessing not only is he indicating no with his hands, safe to say he be shouting no down the mic?
AR though has, correctly it seems, had the courage to either speak first, which we cant tell, then, flag to award the pk, so lets face it, if he got it wrong, he has "sold the ref down the river" and indeed some would say, after being told "no" he has "interfered" by going "yes give it"?

I happy to be corrected but on, say, Padfoots interpretation of when to utilise the AR on fouls, Pawsons pk, the only goal of the game? Would not have been awarded last night, and, so, clearly the kmi called wrongly? Becase the ref said no, thats it? Not picking on user Padfoot but thats what I read from the post.

Not one shoe fits all.
 
If you've already shouted no, then you stick to that. AR has done the wrong thing in flagging after you've shouted.
If you haven't, then you usually want to go with the AR unless you're really sure it's the complete wrong decision.

My point was don't shout no for something that is much closer to the assistant than you, he might have, for example, seen a shirt pull or push on your blind side. Let him have a chance to come in first, same as if you think it was a foul, give the assistant a chance to flag it first.
 
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