Solanke Handball

[A Freethinker]

And, for the record, Klopp is an idiot.

Never said there wasn't contact I said it wasn't a push.....as for Jurgen I am sure your opinion matters to him!

 

[HarryD]

Hmm I'm assuming all of this is sour grapes as a Liverpool supporter?

 

[Ciley Myrus]

Thats a horribly tough decision to make. By the LOTG there is no way on earth imo that can be deemed as deliberate, its clearly hit him, not he it, and as we know, handball has to be deliberate. I feel it that happens on halfway line, am playing on.
But, as the gods of the law of sod kindly intervene, this ball hit off the arm lands in the net. Its horrible because you are now really saying, I know you have not handled it on purpose, but I cant allow you to have that goal. In theroy, anyone who deliberatlly uses their hand to score or attempt to score a goal should be cautioned too, I dont think he was, and of that am glad. For me, it comes down to the football expects criteria. If you score a goal with use of the hand, football expects that it be disallowed. I suppose if its 4 0 Liverpool at the time, the matter is not even mentioned in tomorrows papers. Correct to disallow it for me

 

[GraemeS]

I hadn't seen this, but having watched the video, I'm baffled by this. The laws have actually been changed recently to specify that any attempt to score a goal using the arm must be a caution, I understand that.

But, as far as I know, the provision that handball has to be deliberate to be an offence still exists? I can't see any referee giving a penalty if a defender touched the ball like that (assuming it didn't go in), so in law, I don't know how you can give a FK against the attacker. And to then compound the error by bottling out of giving a yellow card just makes it feel like the referees are making laws up to suit them?

I would be perfectly happy if the laws were changed to state that a goal cannot be scored by an accidental arm. It's a solid principal and makes perfect sense to me. But that's not the law at the moment. So the only way the referee can justify disallowing the goal under current LOTG is by suggesting this is a deliberate handball (and you can clearly see him saying "Handball in the clip). And having made that (clearly wrong) decision, he's surely then only made a further mistake by failing to show a card?

 

[Ciley Myrus]

hypothetically, IF he was already on a caution, and IF the referee had carried out the LOTG to the nth degree, this player would have in effect been dismissed for the ball bouncing up onto him.

 

[es1]

The one thing i agreed with in Dermot Gallaghers quote was the part about it being morally wrong to allow the goal. It's such a clear handball and football (certainly the fans and players) expect this to be disallowed, despite it not being intentional.

As mentioned above, I'd be all for a law change preventing any sort of accidental handball goals

 

[A Freethinker]

Hmm I'm assuming all of this is sour grapes as a Liverpool supporter?

Nope....it is as a referee who wouldn't have given that decision in a million years, football is a contact sport, not every contact is a foul and to make such a decision in a derby game when he can't clearly see a push is beyond me.

As for the Solanke handball, ball hits hand NO deliberate movement of the hand to ball therefore not handball.

 

[HarryD]

I couldn't possibly comment on the Solanke incident - I've not seen it. But the first one, like I've said, was very naive defending. Lovren needs to wise up because from the angle that Craig Pawson had, I'd have been inclined to make the same decision.

If, as consensus says, that the Solanke incident was accidental, I'm awarding the goal. I don't care how scruffy or untidy it is. Unless the laws of the game change, we know the correct decision. Couldn't really give a monkeys if it upsets someone, I'm going to upset someone with every decision I make. You can easily justify allowing it by the 'handball has to be deliberate' response.

 

[GraemeS]

hypothetically, IF he was already on a caution, and IF the referee had carried out the LOTG to the nth degree, this player would have in effect been dismissed for the ball bouncing up onto him.

Exactly. The laws need to be thought through around this again, because at the moment the referee has to consider it deliberate to penalise, which then carries further mandatory actions that are disproportionate to an accidental contact.

 

[Peter Grove]

For me that was not a deliberate handball and so with the law as currently written, the goal should have been allowed. However I understand the point about it not seeming "morally right" nor within the "spirit of the game" for a goal to be scored with the hand which brings us back to a point I made in a previous discussion - that prior to 1974 the law said that a goal could not be scored if propelled by the hand or arm of a player from the team scoring the goal (except in the case of a goalkeeper within his own penalty area). It was in 1974 that they added the word "intentionally" to this clause that, although it brought it into line with the overall intent of the law on deliberate handling, does seem to allow what many people feel is an improper or unfair way to score a goal. I'm not sure that too many people would object if the IFAB were to re-introduce something along the lines of the pre-1974 wording.

 

[AlexF]

I couldn't possibly comment on the Solanke incident - I've not seen it. But the first one, like I've said, was very naive defending. Lovren needs to wise up because from the angle that Craig Pawson had, I'd have been inclined to make the same decision.

It was in post #8 above.

 

[Mintyref]

The one thing i agreed with in Dermot Gallaghers quote was the part about it being morally wrong to allow the goal. It's such a clear handball and football (certainly the fans and players) expect this to be disallowed, despite it not being intentional.

As mentioned above, I'd be all for a law change preventing any sort of accidental handball goals

No! Morals don't come into it....it's just a goal that's been scored from a deflection. If a team mate had smashed a drive that hit him on a stationery arm down at his side and went in you wouldn't chalk that off....