The Ref Stop

Solanke Handball

bester

bester

RefChat Addict
Ball rebounds off Solanke's torso onto his arm and goes into the goal. Paul Tierney probably on the advice of his assistant awards a DFK for handball but doesn't caution Solanke.

Personally didn't think it met the criteria for deliberate handling but was probably been disallowed on 'spirit of the game' grounds.

Can you punish a handball offence in these circumstances without cautioning?

"• handles the ball in an attempt to score a goal (whether or not the attempt is successful) or in an unsuccessful attempt to prevent a goal"
 
The Ref Stop
I haven't seen this and its an interesting scenario. The way the law reads, it is possible to penalise for deliberate handball but not caution in a circumstance when you consider the handball to be deliberate but the fact that the ball ended up in goal was an unintended consequence.
 
I think the major problem with this decision is the fact both the referee and the linesman have obstructed views (therefore aren’t 100% sure that it was played by his arm) and both give the goal. Then after mass con the decision is overturned - potentially by 4th official or the lino changes their mind. The problem is that now referees across the country have lost the ability to say ‘shouting at me won’t change my decision’ and therefore we invite dissent and mass cons.
 
I'm not sure the AR had changed his mind; if you look at the footage directly after Solanke scored. The AR is standing still rather than jogging or moving toward the centre if the goal was legal.

But I agree, a tough call to make, with potentially an obstructed view. Though I'm not entirely sure whether it was deliberate or rather his momentum carries him through.
 
Never a handball....two poor refereeing decisions have cost Liverpool 4 points in the last two games. If these guys are the pinnacle of refereeing then I have to say it is in a sorry state!
 
I've not seen the handball decision. However, I disagree with your point there Freethinker. The penalty in the Merseyside derby was a penalty. It's not the biggest push in the world but if you put your arms on the back like that, the referee is bound to give a penalty, and he was correct to do so.
 
Great decisions, It was a real achievement too for Liverpool to retain the 'We Drew with West Brom Cup'.... Beats winning the Prem for sure!!
 
The clip itself:

https://streamable.com/h8epp

This kind of happenstance has been called fairly consistently over the last 2-3 years as a non-goal (Alexis Sanchez has one of the few that was allowed). Something to the effect of "the game doesn't want to see questionable goals such as this."
 
MOTD team said there had been a 'directive' - didn't say who from - that such instances of accidental handball that result in a goal should be disallowed.

Anyone else seen this directive, or is it just a figment of Mr Lineker's imagination!?
 
PinnerPaul said:
MOTD team said there had been a 'directive' - didn't say who from - that such instances of accidental handball that result in a goal should be disallowed.

Anyone else seen this directive, or is it just a figment of Mr Lineker's imagination!?
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I'm not sure how "hard coded" this directive is, but the recommendation we were passed down last year as instructors by one of our national instrutors was (essentially) what I noted immediately above your post.

I suspect that it came out in discussions at the FIFA (or IFAB?) levels and has been disseminated out primarly verbally.
 
AlexF said:
I'm not sure how "hard coded" this directive is, but the recommendation we were passed down last year as instructors by one of our national instrutors was (essentially) what I noted immediately above your post.

I suspect that it came out in discussions at the FIFA (or IFAB?) levels and has been disseminated out primarly verbally.
Click to expand...

Cheers Alex
 
HarryD said:
I've not seen the handball decision. However, I disagree with your point there Freethinker. The penalty in the Merseyside derby was a penalty. It's not the biggest push in the world but if you put your arms on the back like that, the referee is bound to give a penalty, and he was correct to do so.
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If you think that is a push then you must give every touch a player makes as foul/push etc there is minimal contact and I have looked numerous times and yet to see an actual push (forward motion of the arm) I see him putting his hand on his back yes and there is contact a push....not in my honest opinion.

Sheffields Finest said:
Great decisions, It was a real achievement too for Liverpool to retain the 'We Drew with West Brom Cup'.... Beats winning the Prem for sure!!
Click to expand...

Sad..thought better of you!
 
Calvert-Lewin got there in front of Lovren. I'm not sure how much of a push there was but there was clear contact from behind.

Clever attacking play, defender needs to wise up.

And, for the record, Klopp is an idiot.
 
Demot Gallagher on sky sports: "I think the problem for referees is the moral dilemma that it isn't acceptable to score with the hand or the arm. It just doesn't sit right.
I use the term 'moral dilemma' because in law a handball has to be deliberate, but it doesn't sit right for it to go in off the hand and it doesn't look right. It's not permissible to score with the hand anyway in law, so you are covered in that department. It has gone in off his arm, whether he likes it or not. It has flicked up and it's quite clear that it goes in off his arm because it changes direction. I don't think the referee has got any other choice but to disallow the goal."

The bit in the middle caught my eye, scoring with a hand is not permissible in law. Never heard that before! I'm not in a position to check lotg (I'm fairly drunk), can anyone confirm this!?!
 
Another example of premiership referees rewriting the laws as they see fit. That was never deliberate hand ball and the goal should have stood.
 
A Freethinker said:
Never a handball....two poor refereeing decisions have cost Liverpool 4 points in the last two games. If these guys are the pinnacle of refereeing then I have to say it is in a sorry state!
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I was at the game yesterday (as a neutral) and sitting right behind the relevant assistant. As soon as the incident happened I was thinking / saying handball so not in the least surprised to see the goal chalked off. As for the penalty at the weekend, from the referee's view it looked nailed on and it's just horribly naieve defending from Lovren to raise his hands like that and give the referee a decision to make. Overall, if Liverpool had taken their numerous chances in the derby or shown sufficient quality to break down a stubborn WBA last night, we'd not really have been discussing either (IMO correct) decisions.
 
Even though the ball has bounced up from the defender and off SoLanky (we should so resign Crouch to partner him), I think the arm does enough to call the handball - and it has to be a yellow card.

The arm starts in an acceptable position considering the player's movement, but the swiping motion with the arm is enough to justify the call I think. I also take into account that it looks like he could have avoided handling the ball into the goal.

The Everton penalty - no
The Solanke goal - no
IMHO of course
 
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