So the good old offside again.

[matty639]

So had a fairly straight forward women's game this afternoon, ably assisted by two very good assistants. One of which is a regular here and will no doubt come on later. So the game was fairly dull with one side being very much better than the other. Red team have flat back four and are defending, a blue midfielder tries to play a ball over the back to blue striker who is stood in an offside position. Problem occurs when red RB attempts to clear the ball but rather than head it forward she messes up and heads it backwards. Blue striker runs onto goal. My AR quite fairly raises his flag (due to blue striker being in an offside position) and I signal to lower it as to me the RB has made a deliberate attempt to play the ball and I figure he hasn't seen that. Typically she runs through on goal and scores.

The manager was a little upset at the end and couldn't understand the difference between a rebound and a deliberate attempt to play the ball. Had I had my LOTG to hand I would have quoted "A player in an offside position receiving the ball from an opponent, who deliberately plays the ball (except from a deliberate save), is not considered to have gained an advantage."

To me a player messing up a header is no different to misjudging the weight of your back pass and playing in a striker.

What's the view from others.

 

[haywain]

There was a pretty big thread on this recently which remained pretty inconclusive. I had one header similar to that in my game today, though more of a jumped but ball just skimmed off his head to attacker. In my game, attacker wasn't in offside position so no decision making needed

 

[HarryD]

Let's look at the England vs Uruguay Gerrard header. He headed it backwards and Suarez scored. I'd have to see it to make a proper judgement but from your description, sounds like the correct decision.

 

[matty639]

That's the one that springs to mind for me as well.

 

[Aled]

Ok, here's how I saw it.

Ball played through and blue attacker is offside and is right by the defending red player who is clearly aware of her presence. As the ball comes over red jumps and fails to clear the ball however playing it in the process however for me the presence of the blue player and the fact that she was right by the defender (More or less touching her) made me think of the 'interfering with an opponent' after the conference in West Wales that Matty wasn't at. It's all down to when is an opponent interfering with the opponent in my opinion the blue player was interfering with the opponent. Offside, what a pain the bum to judge!

 

[matty639]

To add to that, the LOTG stat that "interfering with an opponent" means preventing an opponent from playing or being able to play the ball by clearly obstructing the opponent's line of vision or challenging an opponent for the ball. Neither of which this player was doing, whilst I agree she was nearby and the defender would have known she was there, it is not an offence to be stood in an offside position. If blue striker had jumped with red RB then you'd be spot on.

 

[SM]

At the risk if reigniting the previous debate on this subject... I agree with @matty639. This did come up in the conference and it was clarified that if a player deliberately attempts to play the ball, it's irrelevant where the ball goes. No offside.

Aled is also correct that interfering was also discussed at the conference. They did talk about challenging for the ball, now meaning moving towards the ball (rather than just actually making a tackle) would be interfering/a challenge and hence offside. So without seeing it, it is difficult to know, but Aled could also be correct.

That's cleared that up, me thinks

One thing for certain. The referee decides and in the context of the match, he was correct. No offside, goal.

 

[matty639]

Ben, I very much agree with you on the moving towards the player part but consider this, the LOTG clarify interfering with an opponent as above but moving towards the player isn't mentioned. As mentioned before it is not an offence to be stood in an offside position, ergo a striker could run around behind the back four all game hoping for a player to mess up a pass or header and he would have technically committed no offence.

 

[SM]

I do agree.

I also think the laws of the game need to clarify "challenge for ball" but that is a different story.

@Aled - it would be you causing trouble mate. Had to be you

 

[Aled]

I love causing trouble If I get assessed I'll ask what an assessor's opinion of it is to see what they think, be interesting to hear what some of the Welsh FA guys like Ellingham and Hames would have to say about it.

 

[Martiju]

I think this is one of those cases where the LOTG can't accurately describe all situations. Personally, I think the relative skill of the players, plus an element of giving the teams the decision that they expect, both come into play here.

I referee a lot of women's teams and have come to realise that the range of skills varies so much that you can rarely anticipate what is going to happen (I've been caught out by miskicks more times than I'd have liked). I like the comparison with Gerrard's header, but he's an experienced international who you would reasonably expect to play the ball cleanly (or communicate better, but I digress...). From what you've described it sounds like although it was a deliberate attempt to play the ball it turned out to be more of a deflection than a controlled header. Personally I'd probably have gone with the offside as the ref as by that point everyone expects that and it's arguable in law - ie. not completely wrong! That said, your take is defensible at least.